Uncovering the Root Cause of Fertility Challenges (402)

Full Transcript: Episode 402

Lisa Hendrickson-Jack:

Welcome to the Fertility Friday podcast, your source for information about the Fertility Awareness Method and all things fertility. I’m your host, Lisa Hendrickson-Jack. I’m the author of The Fifth Vital Sign and the Fertility Awareness Mastery Charting Journal. I’m a certified fertility awareness educator and holistic reproductive health practitioner with nearly 20 years of experience teaching women to connect to their fifth vital sign through menstrual cycle charting, balancing hormonal health, and optimizing the menstrual cycle without hormones. I’m outspoken about hormonal birth control and its impact on fertility and overall health because you have the right to know how your body works and how artificial hormones disrupt that natural process. I teach women’s health professionals how to utilize the menstrual cycle as a vital sign in their practices and I host live coaching programs to help you achieve optimal fertility and health because it’s important to have healthy menstrual cycles regardless of whether or not you want to have babies. I’m also a wife and mother of two beautiful boys. I know I’m a busy girl but I managed to fit it all in. This podcast is designed to empower you to take full control of your cycles, your fertility, and your overall health. And I’m so excited that you’re here with me today.

Today I’m sharing a brand new episode in my Fertility Awareness Reality Series. I’m sharing a call with my client Shalom, who is a member of my previous Fertility Awareness Mastery Live group program. And in today’s call, she’s sharing some of the challenges that she’s experienced along the way of her fertility journey — her fertility journey to her first child and also currently her fertility journey to her second child, which she’s in the middle of. And we talk about a couple of interesting things. I think one of the themes that comes up in today’s call is that idea of forming a team around you when you are dealing with a specific health challenge and getting that support from more than one area.

One of the challenges that Shalom shares is the expense of having multiple testing done. In her experience, she spent a lot of money with certain practitioners doing a wide variety of tests, only to have a separate practitioner look at her overall picture and basically get right to the point. And that’s when she kind of gets into her Hashimoto’s diagnosis. So from my perspective, the takeaway on my end — and of course coming from the perspective of utilizing the menstrual cycle as a vital sign — is that it can be extremely helpful in your fertility journey to have the option to look at your cycle and the connection between your cycle and your overall health as an additional marker to track your success, because it gives you a different picture, a different window into your cycle and into the overall situation.

And especially with conception, one of the things that I found with my conception clients is that when you have a client who’s charting their cycles and you can see when they’re having their acts of intimacy — and especially when you’re working with somebody, or if you’ve personally been in this experience where you have been trying to conceive for a long period of time and you know enough about your cycle to know how to time sex correctly, and it’s still not happening — I think for me that’s why I talk so much about male fertility and its role in conception and fertility in general. Because that’s a fact that is in your face when you’re looking at the chart, when you’re actually having sex at the correct time over and over again for a long time and conception isn’t happening. We really do have to look deeper. And there are often issues on the female side, but we can’t assume ever that everything’s okay on the male side. So with that said, let’s go ahead and jump into today’s episode with Shalom.

And I’m really excited to welcome Shalom to the show. Shalom is in my Fertility Awareness Mastery Live group coaching program. And we’re recording this kind of midway in the program. So we’ve had several weeks together, a couple of hot seats. So I feel like we’ve got our feet wet, we kind of know where we’re at, we have lots to talk about today. So welcome to the show.

Shalom: Thank you.

Lisa Hendrickson-Jack: Well, I’m glad to have you. And I think — I always like to start by asking you to share just a little bit about your menstrual history. I mean, where else can you do that? So maybe you could share with us when you had your first period and what that was like, and if you’ve used hormonal contraceptives before, and basically what brought you to this point now where you were jumping into fertility awareness.

Shalom: I started my period really young. I am young for my grade. So if I wasn’t, I would have started my period in elementary school. I remember I’m the youngest of four. I have two older sisters. And I remember not telling anybody and just ignoring it until one day my sister confronted me in front of my mom. So really good at ignoring my body. But I’ve always — at least as long as I can remember — felt like I’ve had pretty painful periods. I have a history in my family of endometriosis. And anyway, I can’t remember when I got on birth control but I know I did when I got married in my 20s. Early 20s, was probably on it. I feel like I was on it for like at least eight years — I could be wrong, but a long time. And periods were probably better during that time. But we decided to try to start having kids. At first it was like, okay, I’ll just stop taking birth control, and nothing happened. We tried to get more focused on the efforts, nothing happened. Had my OB/GYN note that I had some thyroid cyst formation. So I went and got that checked out and nothing really came of it. I had like two thyroid blood tests done and everything was within the normal limits. So they didn’t do anything, the specialist didn’t do anything. Find out later that I have Hashimoto’s.

That happened. And then I got pregnant probably six months after that and had a super complicated pregnancy. My little guy had IUGR. And so we were monitored pretty hardcore for about two months — ultrasounds literally two to three times a week and NSTs two times a week. They almost decided to do an in-utero blood transfusion and his parameters just changed, so we just barely missed that. But anyway, he ended up coming six weeks early at two pounds five ounces through an emergency C-section and seven weeks in the NICU. So that was very exciting times. Fast forward — trying to get pregnant now, not succeeding. I got pregnant on Clomid, the highest dose, and tried Clomid for a year. I wish I didn’t do that. It was not fun and didn’t succeed in getting pregnant. So we went to a fertility specialist, went through one round of IUI after having $4,000 of fertility tests done, with the fertility specialist actually saying, “Oh yeah, everything looks fine, your thyroid’s just a little off but whatever.” Went through a failed cycle of an IUI and just kind of felt really awful afterwards. So I thought, I’m going to take some time and just really maximize my health to maximize any outcomes in the future, and started listening to your podcast. And I just keep coming back to your podcast because of that, so thank you for being such a great resource for me. I actually ended up going to a naturopath who took all of the $4,000 of tests and all of my past tests and said, “Oh actually, you have Hashimoto’s. Oh actually, you have elevated levels of this protein, and so you’re more likely to have blood clots, so that’s probably why your placenta was the size of a pancake and why your son was so small.” And anyway, so I’ve just been down a journey of health lately and learning a lot about my body and learning how much I’ve ignored it in the past. And here we are.

Lisa Hendrickson-Jack: Well, thank you for taking us through that. I’m always just fascinated when — because I think also in our sessions we talk about a lot. But it’s really only in the podcast interview forum that I can just ask the question and for you to just share your journey in that kind of a way. You’ve obviously struggled with a lot of challenges. And I feel like a lot of the listeners can relate to what you’re saying, because yeah, the lab tests aren’t cheap. And every practitioner has their own style and their own way of dealing with things. It doesn’t mean that one is better than the other. This is why I share the approach — my analogy, the boardroom analogy — of I picture you sitting at the head of the table at the boardroom. Really, especially when you’re dealing with a challenge like fertility issues, you really do need to have, in my opinion, a team. You really do need to have your MD, your family doctor, you need to have your fertility specialist. I think you need to have your naturopath and et cetera. But yeah, everyone does things in a bit of a different way. So in the approach that I take, lab testing is obviously warranted in certain cases, but it’s not my first go-to — which is interesting when you’re looking at the cycle and symptoms. So I thought what you said was so interesting — I just can’t even imagine how you felt about that — which was, you know, I did all these tests and then I went to one practitioner who was like, oh you have Hashimoto’s. But this is all obviously why we need to have a team.

And you’d mentioned something, and I feel like it came up a couple of times, but you kind of said that you were kind of really good at ignoring your body or something along those lines. And so this process of going through the charting and being so super involved must be really interesting. I’m just curious if you wanted to comment on that a little bit more.

Shalom: Yes. So what’s interesting to me in terms of the first cycle — I found what I was looking for because I wasn’t listening to my body, if that makes sense. Like, okay, this is when I’m ovulating and everything else looks normal. But it wasn’t. I was kind of ignoring those abnormal mucus patterns, or like, oh that’s kind of weird, but it only happens once or twice a day so the rest of it’s normal, I’ll just pretend like everything else is normal. So through the cycle charting, I’ve learned how much I don’t actually observe and how much I just kind of push through and say, “Nope, this is what I want to see.”

Lisa Hendrickson-Jack: Yeah, that makes sense. Well, we can switch over and transition into the session part of today’s call. You sent me your recent charts, and yeah, I’m excited to dig into it. So before we jump in, let me know what is kind of at the top of your mind, what you want to make sure that we talk about today.

Shalom: Any of your thoughts concerning the mucus pattern — I’m happy to hear about that, considering how different this is from my first cycle chart. I think one of the questions I had, because we were going back and forth on Slack — so Slack is how we communicate in between sessions, for the listeners who might not know. It’s been great. I used to use Facebook and I find Slack is just the greatest thing ever. Anyway. We’ve been going back and forth about a couple of things in the class. And I think one of the questions I had, particularly before I saw this — this is the first time I’m seeing your second chart here — but I wanted, my first question whenever I hear about mucus stuff is: I want to know what’s actually happening, so that we can identify, like, is it really mucus, is it that wet observation that we see from cervical issues sometimes? Or that’s from the kind of practitioner lens — that’s the first thing for me to really figure out: what is it that we’re seeing?

So in this first chart here — this is your September and October chart. You marked a few days of mucus and then you marked quite a bit of dry days with shiny and a little bit of dampness. Whereas in the second chart that we’re looking at here, you marked many more days of mucus. So now I’m actually seeing more of what you were talking about, because you were concerned about having mucus all the time. But in this previous chart, it kind of looked different.

Shalom: Right — that was me ignoring it. Like, oh that’s once, oh I don’t know, the rest of it’s dry, the rest of it’s doing what it’s supposed to, but it’s just every, you know, it’s just once or twice a day so it just…

Lisa Hendrickson-Jack: Yeah, I feel like we talked about this at some point and I was like, no, no, write it down.

Shalom: Yeah, oh, it’s just stupid, so.

Lisa Hendrickson-Jack: Okay. Well, so let’s — because I think when I saw this chart, I was curious as to whether or not what you were seeing was just dampness with no lubrication. So like you wipe and the toilet paper is damp and that’s what you’re seeing.

Shalom: Definitely something I can like take off. You said something in one of our group sessions that said, “No, no, if you can take it off the toilet paper, that is mucus.” And for whatever reason, the way you said it absolutely clicked in my mind and I’m like, oh thank goodness.

Lisa Hendrickson-Jack: Okay, well yeah, that’s helpful. So this is what I always say — the first chart that we have together is a learning chart. And so it gives us an opportunity to establish a baseline but also gives an opportunity for me to really — because basically what I’m teaching everyone in the class, at least the biggest part, is mucus language. We’ve got notations and all the stuff that we learn together. And what it is essentially is a standardized way of identifying what we’re seeing, so that what you write down means something and it means the same thing to me and allows me to figure this all out.

So then here — to check in with you. So towards the beginning of the cycle, okay, so this is where you’re writing the sensation. On this day, you’re seeing mucus that’s cloudy and yellow, that’s stretchy twice, and you had like a dry slash smooth sensation. Yeah, I think when I do dry slash smooth I’m trying to say it’s dry most of the day but maybe I had that smooth twice. Okay. Well, for simplicity’s sake, at the end of the day you’re writing or noting the most fertile sign, even though we’ve talked extensively about how all pre-ovulatory is considered to be fertile. So if you have several dry observations and like one smooth, you could just write the smooth and then how many times you saw it.

And so it looks like ovulation happened cycle day 17. That’s where I would put it. So let’s see what was happening with your mucus. So we have cloudy mucus leading up and then you start seeing some clear mucus on cycle day 11. On these days that you’re marking a lubricative sensation, you can put the dark purple — anytime that’s lubricative. Peak mucus — the definition would be clear or stretchy or lubricative. But then when you go into your window, you’ve got some good mucus observations here and you’re seeing clear stretchy four or more times on these days.

So obviously the mucus pattern here lasts for — what’s 21 minus 6 — the pattern lasts for 15 days. So obviously that’s more than what we want. I suppose the good news is that you do have good mucus leading up to ovulation. But what it looks like is that you’re showing what looks to be somewhat of a basic infertile pattern that is mucus. So this is good data and information. I’m glad that you sorted that out from the first cycle to the next. And so now I’m actually seeing more of what you were talking about. When you were mentioning that you had a lot of mucus, I was kind of like, well it looks okay. And so I was actually looking forward to getting in there and finding out what you’re actually seeing.

So your peak day would be day 18, that’s the last day with peak qualities — it’s lubricative and stretchy — which appears to be like on the third day of your high temperature. Did you notice a change, a shift in your mucus from when you had it on these days? Like, did you notice a difference in the quantity? Like when you get into these days where you’re seeing cloudy yellow, that’s obviously quite different, but did you notice a bit of a shift in your mucus pattern?

Shalom: Yes. So I do feel like I am able to be like, oh, this is my fertile mucus versus this is just the stuff that’s happening all the time. The quantity is much more. I feel like I do produce a fair amount of mucus compared to others listening in on our group calls and things like that. I’m not searching for it, it’s there. And so yeah, it’s a lot. The quantity is greater, it’s super clear and stretchy and consistently that way.

Lisa Hendrickson-Jack: And the mucus that’s tinted yellow — is that something that you’ve noticed, is that something that’s been pretty consistent?

Shalom: It feels consistent, yeah. It’s random but it’s not. I feel like I have seen that for months.

Lisa Hendrickson-Jack: What’s interesting is — so we’ve had a few conversations centered around the issue with thyroid and we went through some of those things together, we talked a little bit about antibodies and the effect that can have on conception. And it was definitely felt like one of the biggest concerns you had. And recently you’ve had an interesting discovery about histamines. So maybe share a little bit about that. I have a hunch that it’s likely related. When we see patterns like this with all the mucus all the time, what I have found is that it can be related to a few things. It can be correlated with issues of gut health, with chronic inflammation that’s associated with different IBS-type issues. There’s kind of a characteristic way that gut issues and inflammation — when you have a serious reaction when you consume certain things — kind of appears in a certain way. But also in general, allergies — it’s kind of like that concept of a runny nose, like a runny cervix, where you have all of this mucus that you’re making throughout the cycle. But you’re not fertile for 15 days. So the majority of those days that you’re seeing — and we can see the difference in it — so during your fertile window we’re seeing actual clear stretchy mucus that makes a lot of sense for where you are in the cycle. And outside of that, we are seeing more of the cloudy with the yellow tinge. So tell us a little bit about what you’ve discovered with histamine.

I have a hunch that it’s likely related. When you’re having those types of reactions — it’s like a hyper-allergic reaction to a lot of things essentially. And that can be then related. So it is possible that by getting that under control, it is possible that that could shift your mucus pattern. But we’ll have to kind of see if that’s really what the issue is. But share with us a little bit about what’s been happening there.

Shalom: So kind of the history — I would call them my body freakouts. They started after I broke my femur and dislocated my kneecap, did some rehabilitation for that but not necessarily very much cardio. So I went from like being pretty much doing nothing to running 400s with a varsity basketball team and just pretty much dying. Wheezing turned to on the ground in the fetal position, vomiting, stomach cramping, felt like my uterus cramping too. I’ve had times where I actually spot blood after these episodes. And then sometimes afterwards — after these episodes — my nose would run so intensely, my eyes would just be watering, I couldn’t have any airflow through my nose or I would sneeze, so I’d literally have to block my nasal passages so it wouldn’t send me into this hyper-allergic-like response. So I was like pretty incapacitated by these events. And so I kind of worked through them in a way. I got put down on a lower level on the basketball team so I wasn’t getting challenged as intensely. But these episodes kind of kept happening through high school, through college. My last one was probably five or six years ago. But yeah, it’s interesting. I’ve had hives as well through high school that happen — they seem to be encouraged when I’m hot or stressed, but that’s not always the case. So it was always very confusing trying to figure out the hive aspect. So yeah, just recently doing more research on this topic in terms of finding more answers through mast cell activation syndrome and just histamine intolerance in general. I really feel like those are describing all of the weird things that have been happening in my body since I was 13. So I’m kind of exploring that path and seeing where it’s going to take me.

Lisa Hendrickson-Jack: Well, yeah. This is why for me the chart is kind of essential and why I like to give enough time to get the first full cycle, but also to really see what’s happening. There’s a couple of things to keep in mind. The first — we’ve talked about this extensively — which is that when you’re trying to conceive, the cycle does not need to be perfect in order for that to happen. So I think that’s important. And it’s very interesting because in many of our conversations, you were really focused on the thyroid antibodies. But at the end of the day, you really dove into that with your practitioner and you’re really doing a lot of the things that you would need to be doing for that. So it’s like, we’ve identified it, we’re addressing it, we kind of need to let those strategies work now. And then what’s interesting is — histamine issues are very characteristic and also very uncomfortable. It’s just not a pleasant thing to have to deal with these histamine issues. And it’s really interesting that somehow that kind of fell into the background. But I would imagine that it’s because you’ve been dealing with it for so long that it’s just kind of like, this is just how it is, it’s just how I am. We don’t really think about how it could be affecting things until you start charting and then you see mucus all the time and you’re kind of like, what is happening? Why am I seeing this all the time?

Shalom: Right. And when I’d get my hives and things like that before, I’d just pop an antihistamine and forget about it. And now I’m really trying not to take any medication. And so they’re a lot more annoying. And so I’m having to not ignore them.

Lisa Hendrickson-Jack: Yeah, that’s interesting. Well, I’m not anti-medication, just to put it out there — a good example of that is period pain. I think obviously there’s a lot of things we can do to reduce inflammation and try to work on addressing it. But when you have the pain until you’ve sorted that out, I’m not anti-Advil. But I see what you’re saying because if you’re having to try to address it and also understand more about it and how it works, then it makes sense.

In terms of addressing it — maybe share a little bit about some of the things that you’re doing. I know you had mentioned that there are certain foods that you were eating that were high-histamine foods. And it’s hard because it’s like the healthiest stuff. It’s like fermented foods, it’s like bone broth — all these things that are really healthy and great for you. But if you have an out-of-control histamine problem, the first step is — not necessarily forever, but certainly temporarily for a period of time — to get rid of them. And it sounds like you had some astounding improvements.

Shalom: Right. So yeah, I’ve been eating really well, especially compared to what I was eating eight months ago. So I have been eating those bone broths, fermented vegetables, sauerkraut, grass-fed nitrate-free organic sausages. And I caught a cold, and so I was like, oh, I’m going to down a bunch of lemon water. And it was amazing — every night I’d go to sleep and I’d wake up in the middle of the night with hives, and so that happened for seven days in a row. And then I kind of stumbled across this histamine thing through your podcast, turned into somebody else’s podcast and just kind of went down a little rabbit hole there. And so I found this information about histamine intolerance and those kinds of things. So I went to a low-histamine diet. And so the first night, my hives were an eight out of ten, and then I went to a two out of ten as soon as I changed my diet. And then I haven’t gotten hives since, except for a little bit in the shower one night when my feet got really hot. But I’m honestly at a standstill. I kind of don’t know what to do with my food because it is so limiting. I’m already dairy-free, gluten-free, trying to avoid nightshades — do all of these things — and then trying to change that as well to do low-histamine, while taking out all of those healthy things that I know are improving my egg quality and gut health and all of those things. So I do feel a little stuck at the moment.

Lisa Hendrickson-Jack: Yeah, it’s a tough situation to be in, because I know a lot of the dietary restrictions you’d imposed are for very valid reasons — these were things to lower antibodies and address the thyroid issues and things like that. And this is one of the challenges inherent in these issues, because we’re perpetually balancing the health issues that we’re trying to address plus the preconception nutrition and care. And so I think that’s where these conversations come in. And it might be a good opportunity to have a conversation with your naturopath and have some additional support to re-strategize, because I know a lot of the things you were doing were part of a protocol. It would be a good idea to have this conversation — like, what are the most important things for me to deal with this antibody issue? Let’s try to reduce inflammation. We know gluten doesn’t help with the antibodies, but maybe given the limitations that I’m facing with the histamine issue, which is a lot more pressing, I can’t actually get rid of all of these things right now. And then there are tests for these things. So schedule a test after however long with the new protocol and you should then be able to see what’s happening. These are things where if you make an adjustment, it’s not to say that if you made the wrong choice it’s the end of the world — you can still identify what’s happening.

And just another point — because of course you’ve been trying to conceive for a while now, one of the things that we’re not talking about a lot today because we’ve spent a little bit of time on it in our previous sessions — we’ve talked a little bit about sperm quality and all that kind of stuff. Just for the listeners — that was one of the first things I addressed regarding this. But what do you think about it?

Shalom: I feel very stuck on the subject. I’m actually pretty restrictive in my diet. I’ve been trying to avoid corn, legumes, peanuts, nuts — some of this is thyroid protocol, some of this is food allergy tests that I received, so eggs and legumes came back really high. And you know that food allergy tests tend to come back high on the things you eat the most. So I’d like to honestly kind of get a re-hashing out of that. But anyway, I had some corn last night and that really seemed to upset my stomach and GI. And so I have tested the water somewhat on some of them. And then I get concerned — is this causing issues and inflammation in my body? So yeah, I look forward to getting unstuck on this topic so I can hopefully eat more soon.

Lisa Hendrickson-Jack: Yeah, it’s definitely a tough spot. So from the conception standpoint, I think it’s like focusing — trying to focus on all the things you can eat might be helpful. It might be a good exercise for you to pull out a piece of paper and write down in categories all the things you can eat: the category of meat, the category of veg, the category of fruits, the category of nuts and seeds if there’s anything left. But to actually write out what you can consume. Because from a practical standpoint, if you’ve cut out a bunch of stuff, you have to make dinner. So it can be helpful to actually have this list of all the things that you could consume. So for example, if you’re down to like meat and veg, and not even all veg, it might be helpful to actually write out a list of some of those meats and some of the vegetables that you can actually consume — all of them — so that when you go to think about making dinner, within that list there are probably some things that you really like. And it might even be an opportunity — I’m obviously trying to look at this in a positive way — but it might be an opportunity for you to try new things. If there’s a farmer’s market by you, there might be all these different kinds of squash — and squash is squash, it’s not that exciting, but you know what I’m trying to say here. So like as a temporary measure, trying to incorporate as much of what you can into it.

And what this could look like — I usually do things by cycle. So I think it would make a lot of sense to do one full cycle or the equivalent where you go pretty hard on this, because your body needs a chance to rest. Because it’s been triggered so much. So like one or two full cycles. With that said, I think that the foods that are not histamine-triggering foods — that’s the conversation to have with your naturopath about incorporating some of these things, so that we’re dealing with the most pressing matter. Because when you are in a situation where you are severely restricting what you’re consuming, there are plenty of occasions where it makes sense for a period of time, but if it goes on for six months to a year, then you can end up inadvertently missing nutrients. So I think it’s about having a strategy and a plan and then a way to start incorporating foods later on down the line, so that it doesn’t become “I never eat nightshades again” — it becomes “I’m removing them for a period of time for a reason, and there’s a strategy that I’m developing to reincorporate those foods when appropriate so that I can really identify what really is bad for me.” So you try to incorporate corn and it causes a reaction — when you have more information, it doesn’t mean you never eat corn again, but it could mean that maybe you go a little bit longer, you work on some gut healing, and then you reintroduce.

I think what might help you to get unstuck is that appointment that you have on Thursday. But go into it — spend some time thinking about it. Write out the list and think logically for yourself: what would it actually make sense for me to put back in? Go in with an idea of like, okay, these are all the things I’ve cut out and this is why. And now with the histamine issue, it’s different — certain foods that you would be able to eat with the low-histamine diet are different from the thyroid protocol. And then once you have that, we can certainly have a conversation as well and see if I can support you to feel good about whatever strategy you think is best.

Shalom: It’s a lot going on, Shalom. Yeah. And it’s funny, through this process, I’m one to again kind of be like, oh no, everything’s fine, it’s okay. And so to not ignore that and be like, all right, this is a problem, this is a problem — yeah, it’s a different thing for me.

Lisa Hendrickson-Jack: Well, yeah, I think the charting can be a double-edged sword depending on your personality. Obviously, the way that I’m teaching you to chart is very specific, so there’s a lot of minute details. And the positive about that is that we get a good idea of what’s happening and you can see whether or not it’s falling into normal parameters. And obviously in a case like this, my hunch is that it’s certainly related to the histamines. It’s quite likely — given that when you have a lot of histamines you always have a runny nose. The body is a very interesting thing. Just like when you take antihistamines, it causes your mucus to dry up — it’s just what it is. It’s a thing. So my hunch is that it’s related. And this gives us a way to actually see that, okay, that’s what is happening here. And so we’ll just have to see with your next cycle.

Do you remember when you came to this realization? Like, wasn’t it this weekend?

Shalom: This weekend, yeah. And I was telling you this a little earlier — in terms of with the Hashimoto’s diagnosis, I was kind of like, oh yeah, it kind of vaguely describes what I’m going through. But when I came across this information and connected all the dots of all the things that have happened since I was 13 years old, I like sobbed to my husband about it. So it does kind of feel like this has kind of been what’s going on in my health for so long. Because it’s when you’re having these issues and you just don’t even know — it’s so powerful to have someone put a name to it. And also it’s not in your head. This makes it real. It’s a real thing, we can research it, we can learn about it, there’s strategies — as opposed to just, I just feel like crap all the time and I don’t know why. So it’s huge.

Lisa Hendrickson-Jack: Well, I don’t know if this is super meaningful, but I’ll just point this out in case you didn’t notice. So we have your period and then we basically have about 15 days of mucus with one dry day in the middle. And this is including after ovulation as well. But interestingly, on the weekend it kind of shifted. And you didn’t see — I mean, you’re still seeing some, but there was a shift. I don’t know if that’s really — it’s always too soon to tell. I think we’ll have a better idea in your next cycle and we’ll track that and see what’s going on. But my hunch is that it’s related. And now for me it all makes sense as well, because you were saying, I have so much mucus all the time. And so now to see the filled-in chart with everything that you’re seeing — it all makes sense. And so I guess the good part of all of this is that we do have an action plan — even though you’re cutting out a lot of foods, there’s still room for some of the most nutrient-dense foods, like liver. But anyway, so we can still work within that for the preconception care and things like that. But we do have an action plan for the things that are happening with you. And then we also have an action plan for your partner to improve the sperm quality — because I should put it on a t-shirt, but I don’t think there’s any man alive who is so healthy that he can’t benefit from at least a multivitamin or some liver. So that’s the good news. And now we’re at the part where we just keep charting, keep tracking, and we’ll see what your cycle is like the next time. And that’s really going to tell us if we’re getting close to identifying at least what’s causing all this mucus.

Shalom: Well, it’s been a pleasure having you on the show. Thank you. Before we go, I just want to ask you a question for the listeners who are thinking about jumping into the Fertility Awareness Mastery, the coaching program. Maybe share with them what your thoughts are based on what your experience has been so far.

I feel like the information you have given me is something that women should be brought up with. It’s really amazing to hear some of this stuff and be like, man, I have a doctor, I’ve done physical therapy, I went through so many anatomy classes. How did I just learn that about my body? So I am grateful and I feel like this is information that we should be giving our daughters, giving each other. I really enjoy talking with my friends about it. And I’ve been a part of the group sessions and so it’s really nice connecting with other women and hearing their struggles and getting the information that you give almost repeated into my brain, and so I actually connect with it more often. And yeah, this is just in my mind just necessary information as a female.

Lisa Hendrickson-Jack: Yeah, I agree. I definitely feel like over the years, I feel like my client work is what always connects me to how important it is. Because as you can imagine, it can potentially wear off — like if you were just to kind of, once you finish the class, just go about charting your cycles and improve your overall cycles, conceive, have a baby, chart, live your life, in 10 years it’s not as new and fresh in your mind. It’s kind of something that falls into the background that you take for granted that you just do all the time. And so honestly, for me, it’s really my client work that continues to just highlight how important it is. Because every woman should be able to let this fall into the background and take for granted — like, this is the world I would like to be. Because it’s just something that we all do and it’s something that we all know. And like, that would be actually the way I would like to live. So maybe we’ll get there.

All right. Well, thank you so much. It has been an absolute pleasure and I will see you soon.

Shalom: Thank you, Lisa.

Lisa Hendrickson-Jack: Thank you for listening. If you enjoyed today’s episode, please share it with a friend. You’ll find the show notes page for today’s episode over at fertilityfriday.com/402.

I hope that you enjoyed today’s episode with Shalom. I do feel like it was a great conversation and just a great reminder at the importance of setting up your team and to always have more than one opinion and perspective — especially coming from somebody who is working from a perspective that isn’t as common. Most practitioners aren’t looking at the menstrual cycle as a vital sign and looking at it as a central piece or way to evaluate overall health. And so there’s a significant benefit to not getting a thousand opinions and going to a million people, but there’s a significant benefit to seeking at least more than one perspective. So if you have your medical doctor or your fertility specialist, it is helpful to seek also the opinion of a functional practitioner or somebody who can look at the menstrual cycle, especially if you’re dealing with fertility and you have some concerns about that.

One of the great analogies that has come up on the podcast a number of times is the tool belt analogy. So if you’re going to a surgeon, the surgeon has surgery in their tool belt. If you’re going to a medical doctor, typically they have drugs, often surgeries or other procedures in their tool belt. If you’re going to a nutritionist, then obviously nutrition is what’s in their tool belt. And functional practitioners are often looking at those underlying factors that are contributing to hormonal imbalances and really looking at trying to identify the root cause of issues. So having a team of practitioners, especially for dealing with serious challenges or ongoing fertility challenges, can be extremely helpful. It’s not to say that one person is necessarily right over the other, but to have that complete picture can be extremely beneficial. So with that said, I hope you have a wonderful week, weekend, whenever you’re tuning into the show. And of course, as always, until next time — be well and happy charting.