Copper IUD Side Effects and What Your Doctor Won’t Tell You (Episode 412)

Full Transcript: Episode 412

Lisa Hendrickson-Jack: Welcome to the Fertility Friday Podcast, your source for information about the Fertility Awareness Method and all things fertility. I’m your host, Lisa Hendrickson-Jack. I’m the author of The Fifth Vital Sign and the Fertility Awareness Mastery Charting Journal. I’m a certified fertility awareness educator and holistic reproductive health practitioner with nearly 20 years of experience teaching women to connect to their fifth vital sign through menstrual cycle charting, balancing hormonal health, and optimizing the menstrual cycle without hormones. I’m outspoken about hormonal birth control and its impact on fertility and overall health because you have the right to know how your body works, and how artificial hormones disrupt that natural process. I teach women’s health professionals how to utilize the menstrual cycle as a vital sign in their practices, and I host live coaching programs to help you achieve optimal fertility and health, because it’s important to have healthy menstrual cycles regardless of whether or not you want to have babies. I’m also a wife and mother of two beautiful boys. I know, I’m a busy girl, but I managed to fit it all in. This podcast is designed to empower you to take full control of your cycles, your fertility, and your overall health. And I’m so excited that you’re here with me today.

Today I’m sharing a brand new episode in my Pill Reality Series. I’m sharing my interview with Jennifer, and she shares her experience with the IUD, but also with the birth control pill and what it was like switching to different methods and things like that, which is very common. And so you’ll get a sense of a few different methods and what her experience was like, what the insertion was like, all those types of details. And so without further ado, let’s go ahead and jump into today’s episode.

So I’m really excited to be here today with Jennifer. Jennifer and I connected over social media because you had shared your experience with the IUD essentially, and I felt compelled to reach out and give you an opportunity to share your experience on air. So I’m really excited that you’re here with us today. Welcome to the show.

Jennifer: Thank you so much. I’m excited to be here, excited to share.

Lisa Hendrickson-Jack: Yes. Well, before we hit record, we were just chatting a little bit about giving space to share your personal experiences. And so I always find it to be really interesting. Over the years, I found these episodes to just be really compelling. I love, also because of the work that I do, I hear a lot of stories. So the podcast allows me to actually share this. So I feel like I’m sharing the burden. It’s not a burden to hear the stories. But as you can imagine, like the analogy I would use is like, I have a lot of friends who are nurses. And if you ever get into a room with nurses, they tell you just the — I mean, sometimes it’s like gross, you know, bodily fluids and stuff like that. But sometimes it’s really tragic and traumatic, the types of things that they’ve experienced. And so I guess my point is that the podcast gives an opportunity to just share these stories. So if you’ve experienced something like this, you know that you’re not alone. And if you’re just kind of learning about these things, it’s to say, yeah, IUDs have a lot of positives, but some women experience some of those negative side effects that we should talk about.

So with that said, let’s jump into it. I love starting these conversations by asking you just to share a little bit about how old you were when you had your first period, what that was like, and kind of what led you, you know, a little bit about your birth control history. And I think that’s probably a good place to dive in.

Jennifer: Sure. So I was one of the lucky ones who started my period when I was 10 years old. And I was in grade four, the first of all my friends. And it was embarrassing, I guess, because I didn’t know what it was. My mom never told me. And recently when I talked to her about it, she had said the reason she never talked to me about my period before was because her mom never talked to her and just told her to go talk to her sister. I was like, oh, that makes sense why she would be uncomfortable talking to me about it. So I kind of went through that, and then I didn’t tell my friends or anything until I was maybe in grade five going into grade six. And they had all been like, whoa, what is that? Like, oh, so cool. And I thought they would be like grossed out by it, but they were all very into it and very supportive. And yeah, it was always very nice to get that support from them. And then once they started to get their cycles, then they would come to me and ask questions. I don’t remember much about it, but it was kind of neat. And didn’t have many issues with it. Can’t think of anything that was like a big red flag. Some nausea, but other than that, it was pretty easy going. Pretty regular.

Lisa Hendrickson-Jack: Well, just to kind of jump in there. I’ve heard women obviously get their periods at different times. So 10 is obviously quite young. And actually, my one of my really, really good friends in fourth grade, I remember she was in your shoes. So she got her period first, she started developing breasts first before I even knew what it was. So I can distinctly remember this time when she said like, I need to go to the store to get pads. And I’m thinking like a pad of paper — because I literally was so young that I just, it just completely — so the question out of that is that over the years, you know, I’ve spoken to a lot of women who got their period really young. You’re the first to say it was great, to be honest. I’ve spoken to a lot of women for whom they had their period so young and it was traumatizing, they just had no idea what was going on, they thought they were dying. But in your case, it was actually kind of a positive thing. I just wanted to kind of comment on that and ask you about that.

Jennifer: Well, I guess, okay, so it wasn’t all that positive, but I’m just kind of thinking of these things now. I mean, it was positive. It was a little traumatic at the beginning because I had literally no idea what was going on. I was like, oh okay, I’ll just put that in the laundry, that’s probably going to go away. And then my mom took me to the drugstore, Shoppers Drug Mart. And, you know, she saw someone she knew and she was holding pads in her hand and waved them in the air to wave hello to someone she knew. I was so embarrassed. But I guess if that’s the worst that comes out of it, that’s like really not bad. But it was nice. Yeah, that I did have good friends. And yeah, it wasn’t like horrible. I’ve never had a long cycle. I’ve never had horrible cramps. Sometimes, I think it just depends on my diet. And that usually impacts, I mean, I think that impacts a lot of your health and aspects of your life. So but overall, yeah, it’s not been horrible. And I guess that leads into the birth control aspect of it a bit. And why I decided to go on birth control. Because there was really no reason for me to go on the birth control pill. So that’s what I started out on. I was going into college. I went into college right at 17 because my birthday’s late. So I was like, well, you’re in college, you go on birth control, right? Even though I had no intentions of like having sex or anything because I didn’t want to at the time. And I had no boyfriend, nothing. I was just like, that’s what you do, right? Go on birth control. So I did. No reason.

Lisa Hendrickson-Jack: It’s really interesting.

Jennifer: Yep. My doctor was just like, oh yeah, sure, here you go. And I kind of made up some reason, like, oh, I don’t want acne. I mean, it was acne and like a concern for you? Yeah, it was like it wasn’t great. But I think I was just hormones, you’re developing, you know, it should sort itself out. I mean, I still have it, but it’s not a big issue. I don’t know. So I was on hormonal birth control, like the pill, for three years, about three and a half. So from 17 to about 21 or almost 21. Went off because a friend was talking about how it’s actually not great for your body. And I was like, oh, interesting, I never heard that before. So I was like, well, I’ve never had sex, I have no need to use birth control, why would I ever use it? So I was like, well, I’ll just go off of it. I made an appointment with the doctor and he was like, oh, you didn’t have to make an appointment, you can just go off whenever. Oh, okay. So there’s no like weaning off process or anything. So I lived my life for three years. All good. I don’t know, no issues with like my period or any cramping or really, pretty easy.

Lisa Hendrickson-Jack: Well, and what’s just a couple of things. Like, I guess this is my like educator, you know, charting brain. So you had your first period about ten, and then you said that, so it’s similar to me — I’m a November baby — so when I went to university, I was also 17. So I know what you mean. But so that means that you had seven years of cycling, and the way you’ve described your cycles were like entirely uneventful, basically. And usually, I mean, if there’s something horrific, you remember it. So yeah, so your cycles then, from the perspective of like everything we’ve talked about on the podcast over the years, had enough time to mature, you know, your hormones organized themselves. And it sounds like you said, I never had a long cycle, I never had a problematic cycle. So it sounds like your cycles are pretty consistent and mature. And so when you went on the pill, you were taking your mature cycles. It’s different once your cycles have developed. Because what I have found is that, and what the research would suggest as well, so I’ll try to make this brief because I could go off about this for a long time, but what the research would suggest when you’re looking at the research studies that show what happens to the cycle when women come off birth control is that women who come off birth control and either don’t get their period for a long time, or come off birth control and have really kind of long or irregular cycles for like ongoing — they would indicate that a large percentage of those women had cycle issues prior. Whereas if you have women who were normally cycling, everything was great, their cycles were mature, and they go on contraceptives, they’re more likely to then resume normal cycling in a more timely manner. So I think this is something that’s really important as well. And it speaks to just, we’re not all the same. And so this is why like some women have very few issues with contraceptives, like one of the reasons potentially. And why other women may have other issues with it. Because at least some of you listening never really thought about that before, like, oh well, having normal cycles and going on the pill at 17 after seven years of cycling is different than going on the pill at age 13 after one year of irregular cycling. These two things are not the same.

Jennifer: Yeah, I guess I never correlated that. But I mean, I never really thought back to what my cycles were like that much. Just, you know, they happened. I’m developing now, great, neat. Let’s get on with life. I mean, it’s kind of an inconvenience at times, you know, like you’re going to summer camp and you’re like, oh no, what do I do? I have to pack all these things. Do I have enough like pads or tampons? But nothing horrible, like someone who’s experiencing horrible cramping, irregular cycles, long cycles or anything like that.

But that also didn’t last — well, I mean, my cycles are still regular and all of that. But it turned out that birth control ended up causing a lot of stomach issues and gut health issues, which didn’t come about until maybe two years after I stopped taking it. Which I did not, I didn’t really know that could be a possibility. I just thought it came out of nowhere. And then I did some research and found out that birth control can cause the side effects of like irritated gut issues and stuff like that.

Lisa Hendrickson-Jack: Well, so you said that you took the pill for about three years, and during that time, like, did you notice anything? And when you stopped, because you stopped taking it because of kind of like, oh, a friend of mine told me that maybe it’s not the greatest thing. And it sounds like it was very methodical, because it was also like, well, I’m not currently using it for the stated purpose, like I’m not currently using it for birth control. So I could just come off of it and see how I feel. But at the time when you came off, did you notice anything that was different or while you were on it?

Jennifer: Not right away. It happened maybe about two years after that. But I didn’t realize it was because of that. It was just I started having horrible, horrible pain in my stomach. Like anytime I ate food, it would be — I was on the floor, like cold sweats, just horrible pain. And doctors couldn’t figure out what’s wrong. So I just kind of was like, well, I guess I’ll just go on living my life.

Lisa Hendrickson-Jack: Was it like all of a sudden you had all these problems, or was it kind of gradual? Because of course the skeptical person listening, who’s like, well, if it happened two years after she came off, how would you know that it was caused by that? So we do know obviously that the pill does disrupt gut flora, and there’s some research that shows that, for example, for women who have IBS symptoms, or like it makes it worse — for women who have IBS or Crohn’s or colitis, there’s this correlation between pill use, particularly long term, and the exacerbation of those things. So we do know that there’s a connection. But in your case, what kind of caused you to draw that conclusion?

Jennifer: Well, I guess it did happen semi-gradually. It started like kind of a little bit of pain, but then it would be almost every day, same time. Which I know sounds a little bit like, oh, it was probably something else. But I’d never experienced anything like that before, ever. So it took a few years to figure out that that could be connected, because I ended up going to a naturopath about a year ago, and he’s the one who has helped me with a bunch of stuff related to healing from the birth control pill, which has been really, really nice. And I mean, since I didn’t really realize it right away that it could have been birth control, I didn’t think about it. I was just like, well, I guess this is what I experience now. I don’t go to the doctor so I don’t really think about it. I’m like, I can deal with it myself. So I’d go to a walk-in clinic if I ever had to go to the doctor. Got some ultrasounds. They said nothing’s wrong. I was like, well, I feel pretty awful. I don’t know. Something must be wrong.

Lisa Hendrickson-Jack: Yeah. It’s interesting how it works. I think this is something I talk about on the podcast a lot too, which is that it can take time to put the kind of two and two together. Because if you go on hormonal contraceptives, I mean, most of the women — there’s a couple, like there’s been a handful, maybe like one or two women I’ve spoken to over the years, who said that their doctor actually did open the insert in the office and actually went through it, like it’s like a rare thing. But the like 99% of the women that I’ve spoken to have not had that experience. And so the challenge is that there are all these potential effects that would seem completely unrelated, like gut issues, or repeated yeast infections because of the disrupted gut flora, or what have you — anxiety, panic attacks. And sometimes those things, while a person is on the pill, like sometimes you’re on the pill for a couple of years and you don’t have any panic attacks, and then like four, five, six, seven years into the pill, that’s when you start getting the panic attacks. So you would never even think that it could be related because you’ve already been on it for however many years. So yeah, all of those things kind of exacerbate the problem.

So you went off of the pill, you developed these gut problems, you gradually kind of figured out what they were related to. And then during this time, it sounds like you weren’t highly sexually active or anything. So then kind of bring us into your — like when you actually needed birth control and were looking into that option. Because it sounds like the naturopath helped you to work on some of those gut issues, so hopefully those have improved.

Jennifer: Yes. So it’s kind of a long story and I’m trying to make it short. I did end up — there was a brief time that I went on birth control again for like maybe a month or two, just because I almost got married. And so I was like, oh, I’ll prepare because I’m not sexually active until I get married. And then that didn’t work out, but it all worked out. So then about a year later, I ended up being engaged.

Lisa Hendrickson-Jack: A lot of people have relationships that don’t work out. You’re in good company.

Jennifer: Okay, good. So shortly after that, I started dating my now husband. So about three or four months before we ended up getting married, I decided to do the same thing. I was like, well, I don’t know what else to do. I’ll start on birth control and then we’ll figure it out from there. So in September, I started of 2019. So I started on the birth control pill. I was like, okay, great. I still did not know about my gut issues or that it was related necessarily. But I was like, I just want something that I know I can kind of rely on for the first part of being married and then figure things out. And I believed you could get pregnant any time. So in September, went on the pill, and then by November I had gained 25 pounds. After not changing my diet, not changing my exercise routine. I exercise five to six times a week pretty heavily. I’m not inactive. And I gained 25 pounds right before the wedding. And I mean, I was a little upset, I guess, because I didn’t feel like myself. My body felt weird and off and hurting because of this excess weight on my five foot frame that just does not hold weight very well. So I didn’t know what had caused it. And I kept taking the pill. So January 2020, I got married, and I kept staying on the pill for about a month into the marriage. And I was crazy emotional, insane. Don’t know what was going on. I flipped so fast. So I was like, you know what, I’m going off this. And my husband was like very supportive. He’s very supportive about everything. So I was like, okay, I’m doing this, going off of it. And then a few months later it clicked — the gut issues and the weight gain. I was like, birth control. Why else would I just gain 25 pounds? I haven’t changed my eating. I’ve been eating a lot more fresh food instead of processed, just to prepare for the wedding, and I still gained weight. So I realized then that that’s all connected. And then a few months later, I found a naturopath and he helped me.

Lisa Hendrickson-Jack: So that is, yeah, that’s like a really — it’s interesting how these things kind of work. I think that women often fall into different categories. So in your case, you did take the pill for three years, but it doesn’t sound like you noticed anything abrupt.

Jennifer: It was the same brand.

Lisa Hendrickson-Jack: That’s interesting. Yeah, well, because then this time it resulted in weight gain and mood changes and things like that. Well, I think I noticed the mood changes because I was actually living with my husband when I got married, because I didn’t really notice them before. But as soon as we got married, I was like, what is wrong with me? Not this type of person. I am, I don’t know what’s going on.

Jennifer: But I guess I forgot to mention throughout that I also did have an IUD. So after going off birth control, it took a while to get the IUD because of the way Canadian stuff works. You probably know how it takes sometimes a bit of time to just get things going, I guess.

Lisa Hendrickson-Jack: Yeah, well, so you went off the pill because it obviously was messing with your emotions. And so then it took a little while, but then what prompted you? So tell us about the IUD. You know, was it a suggestion from your doctor? Was it your research? Was it hormonal or non-hormonal?

Jennifer: Sure. So the IUD — copper IUD. That’s what I got. The mini. I heard the brand. It was a mini because they recommended that since I had never given birth. And I specifically wanted copper. I asked for that because it was non-hormonal. And a few of my friends had had it. And I heard mixed reviews. One friend hated it, did not want it. I was like, okay, good to know that. My other friend loved it. Best thing ever. So I had both ends. I was like, well, I don’t know what will be good for me. So I went with it. And I did it. Got it inserted. And it was one of the most painful experiences I’ve ever had in my life.

So he inserted it, and I ended up — so I teach fitness classes. So the next day I was like, oh, I’m fine, I can teach fitness class, like a dance fitness type thing. And I did that. And I was like sore. But then for about until my six-week checkup, I was in pain basically every day from it. And I was like, is this normal? And he’s like, yep, it should be fine.

Lisa Hendrickson-Jack: Could you describe the insertion pain? I mean, sometimes I use the pain scale, like zero to ten — zero, no pain, you’re sitting on a beach, ten, the most intense pain you can imagine. Like was it just when they inserted it? Was there residual cramping? And then you mentioned six weeks, so what type of pain were you experiencing during that time?

Jennifer: So when he inserted it, there was definitely — he described it as a pinch, but it was more of like a twist and a pinch, like all at once, which I did not love. And then I was sitting in the car after and just kind of, okay, you can drive, you can do this, you can drive home. And it was more like there’s this — I could feel it in me, which I was like, maybe that’s just because like I had something put inside of me. Like, of course there was a lot of stuff touching around in there that I’m just gonna be feeling different. So that was more uncomfortable. It wasn’t painful. But then the next few weeks, it was just insane cramping. I’ve never experienced that before. It was like sometimes I would describe it as like a knife stabbing from like my tailbone straight to kind of my uterus, if that kind of gives an idea. I don’t know if that’s what people experience during regular menstrual cramps, and if that is the case, I am so sorry. Because that was horrible. So then those cramps lasted about six weeks. Doctor said it was totally normal. Great. I was like, okay, I mean, I don’t like it. But if it’s normal, it should go away soon, I hope. And it didn’t.

Lisa Hendrickson-Jack: I just feel like I have to say it. You just described how it feels like someone’s taking a knife and stabbing your uterus from the inside, and that’s normal. For the record, like, no, it’s not. There’s no one who’s healthy, who has perfect uterine health, no inflammation, no problems, who’s walking around feeling like they’re being stabbed in the uterus. This isn’t how, in what world. But I’m gonna stop. Just had to say it.

Jennifer: I can’t. It’s just, I mean yeah. I got it inserted, and then I got it out eight months later. That was basically the same pain I would experience the week before my menstrual cycle and then the week of. And I’ve always had light periods, probably four to five days maximum, very light, relatively easy. Like if there was a cramp, it was like it wasn’t anything to talk about. Like it was like, oh okay, cool. Like great. Or it’d be more of like discomfort, not actual cramping. But this time it was just — I’d be driving and I’d have to almost pull over. I’d keep your eyes open, focus on the road, like endure this cramp, because it was that again, the same knife kind of feeling.

Lisa Hendrickson-Jack: You would get that when you had your period now?

Jennifer: Yeah. So and the week before. So that’d be about two weeks of feeling that. When previously you obviously had nothing to speak of.

Lisa Hendrickson-Jack: Yes, nothing to speak of.

Jennifer: What else. It was like painful sex was something that I noticed, but I was trying to ignore it. I’m like, no, this feels the same, this is great. I mean, I don’t know if that was — I’ve been told it moves, maybe in my head, by a doctor. But yeah. I guess what it is is like, so many women have had a similar experience, and this goes back like centuries, where you are trying to get medical help for a problem and you’re told that there is no problem, you’re imagining it.

Lisa Hendrickson-Jack: Yeah, I mean, like, that’s insane and super unethical. It was from someone who inserted it, not my family doctor, so he didn’t know me, he didn’t know my background or history or anything.

Jennifer: And since I don’t go to the doctor for things, I just try and deal with it. I was like, well, I won’t call him after my six-week checkup because you know, everything’s fine, it should be normal to dissipate after a few months, you know, the pain. So I was just kind of kept going. I was trying to push out for a year, but only lasted eight months. But my periods were insanely heavy, lasted the full seven days. Like, I used a menstrual cup, and I would empty about two a day. They were completely full. That is wild to me for at least my personal cycle.

Lisa Hendrickson-Jack: Just for reference, like for the listener, what was it before?

Jennifer: Maybe a cup a day on the very first day, the second day, and then gradually tapered. So it’s definitely two or three times from what you’re describing. Yeah. And it would last like days. Because it normally be four to five days of just bleeding. But the last few days of my normal cycle are very light. Don’t need a tampon, just a liner and you’re good to go. But with the IUD, it was heavy, which I’ve heard is normal.

Lisa Hendrickson-Jack: Yeah, it’s pretty common. Because the copper IUD functions — I feel like I’ve heard people say like they’re not necessarily sure exactly how it functions, but they know that it causes localized inflammation. So within the uterus, it is causing some degree of localized inflammation, and the copper itself is said to have an anti-sperm effect. So between those two factors, it’s very common then for women to have more bleeding. What’s interesting is I’ve done a number of these, so for some women — and you would have been a good candidate, right? Because you didn’t have heavy or painful periods prior. So you actually would have been a good candidate in that sense. Because I’ve spoken to some women who their periods were actually pretty manageable, fine. And so when they had the IUD inserted, the copper IUD, the increased bleeding wasn’t necessarily a problem. And not everybody has like these cramping episodes and like pain. So for some women, it’s fine generally speaking. But for others, it’s like — and I just have to say as well that it’s like, I feel like it’s the elephant in the room. I don’t know if I’m the only one that feels that way, but like if you have a procedure that involves your cervix, like the insertion, and then you have all this pain and it’s residual and then it causes all these problems — my question is, is it actually doing damage? Did it damage something?

And so tell us about getting it out. Like, did you have periods after — how were they? Better, worse, the same? Was this something that changed your periods moving forward, or was it something that resolved once you had it out?

Jennifer: So I guess the first cycle after I had it out, it was heavier than normal, but it wasn’t as long, and it wasn’t as heavy as when the IUD was inside of me. And then the next one it was basically what I had before. And so getting the copper IUD out kind of correlated with when I discovered the podcast. So I ended up — I was like, oh, this is perfect, I can start like kind of learning to chart and at least chart what’s going on while still like using birth control, or like, I was using a diaphragm. Which I found I loved. I was like, why did no one tell me? Okay, my friend told me about it before I got married and I was like, oh, that sounds like, oh, weird. No. And it has been amazing. So I don’t know why it’s not discussed by the doctors more.

Lisa Hendrickson-Jack: Well, the podcast isn’t like pro-diaphragm, everyone should use a diaphragm. Like the point is that every woman is different. So we should have all the options. Because for some women the diaphragm — like I have friends who use diaphragms and they love it and it’s worked for them for decades. Like I have friends who use all those options and everyone’s different and we should be presented with them. Like I wish we were. And even when I was trying to look it up on Google, I could barely find any information about it. None. So I’d go on DuckDuckGo and I was like, oh wow, look at all this information about it.

So the point is that you did get information about it. So how did you like, did you end up using the Caya? Because there was a time when you could go to your doctor and they would have a fitting kit for diaphragms and they would fit you for the diaphragm. So you used to be able to go to your doctor and say, I want a diaphragm. The doctor would know, and not only just know, but they would also have the tools to be able to fit you. Because there are different sizes. There are European websites you can go to and order them.

Jennifer: I think that’s where I went. Yeah.

Lisa Hendrickson-Jack: And so for everyone who doesn’t know, the hard thing is that those websites, you would have to know the size. So you kind of have to like guess the size. But there was a time when you could go to the doctor and some doctors still do this. But like if your doctor’s maybe 75 or older, you’re more likely to — and I’m not being ageist here. I’m saying that there are certain things that, because the times have changed legitimately, the younger doctors do not have some of those skills that the older doctors had. But yes, there was legitimately a time you could go to the doctor, they would measure you, fit you, so you get the correct size, and they would give you a prescription and order the diaphragm and et cetera, et cetera. But nowadays, if you go to your doctor and ask for a diaphragm, they look at you like you have three heads.

Jennifer: Yeah, which is kind of what happened to me when I got my IUD out. And I told the doctor all my issues and the reason why I was getting it out, which was — I didn’t explain all of the side effects I was experiencing, which I feel like other women may have experienced them too, and it’s not normal, even if the doctor says it’s not possible, or it’s only in your head. Which is what he told me to my face — that it’s not possible to experience what I just told him. So I was getting it taken out. And right before he was like, okay, so why are you doing this? And I was like, painful sex, bowel movements are incredibly painful and it’s like pinchy and weird, and that’s never been an issue with me. I can never fully empty my bladder. It feels like it’s like pressing against it. I feel like I always have to pee but I can never fully empty it. And just like the insane cramping. I feel like there was other stuff too, but it was just so much. And I was like, I’m fed up. And again, my husband, very supportive, was like, you need to figure out what’s best for your body. You need to like, this isn’t working for you. It’s not making you feel good.

So yeah, I kind of wanted to add that in too because the doctor said it was not possible to be feeling that. So then he asked, why don’t we just put in a hormonal IUD? I was like, I just told you that I don’t want hormones in my body. And he’s like, it’s very small. But I just told you that’s not what I want. And I’m using a diaphragm. And he kind of was like, that’s not gonna work.

Lisa Hendrickson-Jack: Yeah, yeah. I mean, well, you know, first of all, I appreciate you being here and sharing your experience. I think this is why I do this. I do this for so many reasons. One, to just share it, just to give you the opportunity to share it because, you know, with 5,000 of your closest friends. But because this is a thing. And this is why I have a lot of private sessions with clients — in this forum, it’s not just me who hears it. And this is why it’s important. Because one of the comments I get about these episodes is like, oh, it just sounds like you’re talking, and we are. It’s literally you and I talking about this just as I would. And these are the types of conversations because, I mean, I guess what it comes down to is that as much education as doctors have, no one will know your body and your experience better than you, because only you can know your body and your experience because you live in your body. And so they can say whatever they want. But if you didn’t have any of these effects, sex was not painful, bowel movements were normal, you didn’t have pain with your periods, and the only thing that changed was this IUD and the insertion was painful — and when you’re having that type of experience, the pain is probably kind of similar to the pain you experienced with insertion.

So when you had it out, you had mentioned that your first, like the bleeding was the first time a bit less, like sounds like maybe half, but still more than you did. But then by the second period, it seemed like it was kind of normalizing more. And what about the pain and the pain with sex?

Jennifer: So when he took it out, immediately — like the pressure that was inside of me, like I always said that I thought I could feel it in me even for eight months. Like I thought I could. And you know, I was told that that’s just in your head. So I was like, well, maybe it is. But immediately when he took it out, I started crying. I was so embarrassed. But I started crying because it was just like, the pressure was gone. Everything was gone. I was like, this is what I used to feel like. I was so thankful. Like, so I was sitting on this table and he’s like, here’s the IUD, this was what was inside of you. And I’m like, oh, that’s so great, I’m just crying. So it was a little embarrassing, but also I don’t really care because I feel better and I’m kind of back to where I was. I mean, like, now that I’m pregnant, I’m not exactly.

Lisa Hendrickson-Jack: Well, so tell us about that. You just slipped it in there. So I knew, because you told me, but yeah, so tell us about that. Because the IUD obviously works — it was preventing pregnancy. There was a lot — but it’s not like I wanted to have sex when I was in pain, anyways, during the fertile days I wasn’t really having sex. Taking the IUD out had nothing to do with me deciding to have babies. So I would like to put that out there to the doctor if he was just happening to listen. It’s not because the diaphragm didn’t work. It’s because we actively chose to have children.

Jennifer: Yeah. I mean, clearly the IUD did work. And I think the birth control pill, since I was off of it for so long, I was fine after. I didn’t have any issues, because I know it’s not everyone who has issues getting pregnant after they come off the pill either.

Lisa Hendrickson-Jack: Well, the one good thing — so there are pros and cons obviously to the IUD. Your experience is obviously quite a negative experience with it. But generally speaking, the positives of the copper IUD is that it is non-hormonal, that you do continue to cycle. And so you do continue to ovulate, you make cervical fluid, you have a true actual menstrual period, which can only happen after ovulation. In the experience that you described, you had taken the pill for three years prior, and then you kind of had a little stint, and then you had another little stint — the stint was like four or five months. In the general scheme, when we talk about the transition period and things like that, there is a difference between what is referred to in the research as long-term use. And that is two or more years, typically, is what the research defines as long-term use. So again, there is a difference between taking it for four to five months. It doesn’t mean you can’t have effects. It doesn’t mean it may not take a couple of cycles for things to normalize. But there is a difference between a few months versus several years. And because you were using a non-hormonal method, you were still ovulating and having your period. And so that would have allowed you to cycle. So just to kind of talk that through, in that scenario, even with all of that happening, I wouldn’t assume that you’d have any issues.

Jennifer: When you’re ready to get pregnant, I was just kind of concerned. I was like, what if it damaged it, or what if it has been damaging my insides in some way? But it turns out that getting pregnant was, I mean — I don’t like saying that it was easy for us because I know there are so many people out there who have trouble.

Lisa Hendrickson-Jack: That was your experience. You did get pregnant when you wanted to. So I mean, it is what it is. Obviously not everybody has that experience, but I feel like we should all be able to share our experience.

Jennifer: I just know there are so many people who can’t. And I can’t relate, but I’m always thinking about it.

Lisa Hendrickson-Jack: It’s not like you had like a walk in the park. You had a different kind of experience, right? Like nothing you described sounded fun. And in terms of like damage, this is something where I would love to see more research on this. I mean, in order for the research to take place, we would have to have a medical establishment that acknowledged that there is a problem with insertion. As you were talking about this, this only occurred to me in this conversation — I’ve had a lot of these types of conversations. But so, controversial or not, when a woman terminates a pregnancy, depending on how far along she is, there’s a standard procedure to give her things to dilate the cervix. And as you were talking, it just never occurred to me — when you have a woman who’s never had a baby, the cervix is not open. And that is when they’re having the most pain and issues with insertion. And so it just makes you wonder — there are groups of women who are talking about whether or not these types of procedures could have a negative effect on the cervix. So it’s a topic that, but until the medical establishment acknowledges that it’s even a possibility, if we don’t ask the question, we obviously can’t do the research. But is it a thing? Like, could we do some degree of dilation instead of just pretending like it’s just fine to be basically traumatizing the cervix in this way? So there are so many possible solutions to this problem that are not being utilized. And I’ll mention about my naturopath, Dr. Shaw in St. Jacobs, if anyone is in the area in Ontario.

Jennifer: Oh yeah, you’re near Toronto. I’ve been to St. Jacobs, it’s so lovely. Oh yeah, it’s real cute, all those Mennonites. I mean, that’s my ancestry. But Dr. Shaw — he allowed me to use his name and like, share him. I was like, is it okay if I mentioned you, like, you did wonders? And he was like, oh, that’s great, awesome. So right after I got my IUD out, I just happened to have my like three-month backup appointment with my naturopath. And I told him about the experience, and I told him about what I was going through, because I just got it inserted like the month before I started going to him. So he kind of had been with me the whole journey. And he, as opposed to the other doctor who said no, that’s not possible, this isn’t a thing, it’s in your head — he affirmed everything. And he was like, yes, of course you’ve been feeling that way. I’m actually really happy that you got it removed. And so it was a totally different experience. And that’s why I don’t really go to doctors much, because I’d prefer to go somewhere that actually has been listening to me, rather than someone who just is like, no, that’s in your head.

Lisa Hendrickson-Jack: Well, yeah, I mean, this is, I think there’s so many different factors to consider. What you’ve described is certainly an argument for finding a good practitioner, finding a doctor who does know you and who does know your background in history, who you have a relationship with, who respects you. So that if you do have certain issues, even if you don’t agree with everything, you can still be respected and try to be supportive. Because ultimately, I feel like one of the most important traits of a practitioner is just literally caring about you as a person. And if we had that level of like, I’m gonna trust my patient and I’m not gonna tell her that she’s imagining pain, then I feel like the world would be a little, everything would be a little smoother.

But as we kind of wrap up today — honestly, I could talk to you all day. This has been a ride for the listeners. We’ve really covered a lot. But this is good. This is real life. This is how real conversations go. It doesn’t mean that if you get a copper IUD, you’re gonna have this experience. But like listening to the — especially these IUD episodes — it was very eye-opening. It has been extremely eye-opening for me to conduct these interviews over the years and to speak to clients about these things. Because I was not aware that almost all of the women who I’ve interviewed and the clients I’ve spoken to who’ve had an IUD have experienced moderate to severe insertion pain, and many have gone on to experience a lot of pain afterwards as well. So this is not an isolated incident. And it opened my eyes. Logically, I was always personally afraid of the IUD. I had bad period pain. I was like, nothing that could make this worse. But hearing these stories has really opened my eyes to it. So if there’s one takeaway, it’s that you should have a conversation with your doctor about insertion if you’re thinking about getting an IUD. And know that you do have the option to request numbing — they should be offering it automatically. And you could potentially ask your doctor, if you’ve never had children before, is there a possibility to do some dilation? I’ve heard these horror stories and I really want the IUD, but I want to minimize any trauma to the cervix. I feel like we have to be empowered to be able to ask, or else we would never even think to ask.

So with all of that said, if there’s one thing the listener could take away from our call today, like what would you want it to be?

Jennifer: So everyone is different. Every body reacts differently to whatever it is you choose. But just kind of learn and maybe take notes. Take notes about what is happening and kind of collect them. And if something feels off, you should really try and figure it out. Don’t try and push through it and just be like, it’s fine, everyone else is probably dealing with this too, because they might not be. It might not be normal. And I mean, you should really look into it if it’s not something that’s comfortable. And like, even if someone tells you it’s in your head — basically ignore them and keep going until you get help. That’s why I choose to go with a naturopath, because even though I have to pay for him in Canada rather than like my family doctor, I’d much rather prefer to go with him. Because I know he’ll help. So find someone who will help you. I find it’s hard in Canada because you can’t really switch doctors because there are limitations on how many they’re accepting and stuff and shortages and all that. It’s publicly funded. So it’s different. It’s more like doctor-led versus patient-led. Like you kind of have to take what they give you instead of demanding them to do something for you. So yeah, it’s different compared to our American friends, because if you’re paying for care, it’s different.

Lisa Hendrickson-Jack: Yeah, Canada has its challenges. The United States has its challenges. It’s different. But before we go on another tangent, I just want to thank you so much for being on the show today. This was such an important conversation. I’m just really thrilled that you felt comfortable enough to come on the show and share your story. And I know that this episode will be very just empowering and eye-opening for listeners. So thank you so much for being here.

Jennifer: Oh, you’re welcome, Lisa.

Lisa Hendrickson-Jack: Thank you for listening. If you enjoyed today’s show, please share it with a friend. You’ll find the show notes page for today’s episode over at fertilityfriday.com/412. I hope that you enjoyed today’s episode with Jennifer. I really do love these episodes. I love having conversations with real women about their experiences using contraceptives because I think it’s just important for everyone to hear. And I feel like it gives an outlet. So in my work behind the scenes, this is what I do day in and day out. So I spend my days having conversations with women, talking about their experiences with birth control, supporting them to learn fertility awareness and to use it for whatever their intentions are. So many of my clients are wanting to use fertility awareness for birth control. Many of them have switched from hormonal methods or other methods. And many of my clients are trying to conceive. And so in that case, they’re wanting to understand their cycle, but usually also wanting to dive deeper into the vital sign piece of it. So what can you learn from your cycle? Is there anything I’ve missed? Are there hormonal imbalances? What can I do to improve those? Those types of things.

And so in those conversations, these are the types of stories that I hear all the time. And I find it to be really nice to have the podcast as a way to share that. I mean, I’ve heard so many stories. Not all of them are positive. I’ve heard a lot of negative stories, a lot of negative experiences. And I think the podcast allows that not to just be in private. Obviously, everyone who’s on the show knows they’re going to be on the show. But it allows these conversations to happen in a public sphere so that it’s not just me hearing these stories day in and day out. I share them with you so that you can hear them too. It’s just so important for women to feel that they’re not alone, that they’re not crazy. You know, it’s not just you. There are other people who’ve had similar experiences. I think it’s important not to downplay or minimize these experiences because so often that’s what happens in our culture. And even if you have negative experiences and you go to your practitioners, often they’re kind of like, oh well, you know, wait it out. Oh, you know, it’s fine. And ultimately it’s not fine. So hopefully these episodes help to put things into perspective.

One of the things that generally strikes me when I start a brand new Fertility Awareness Mastery Live group program is I’m in a virtual room with several women who have, usually within the group, at least a few who have come off of birth control. But often many women come off of birth control not necessarily because they wanted to, but because they have spent so many years dealing with whatever side effects that they’re experiencing that they start to feel either crazy or frustrated or really feeling like they’re at the end of the rope, feeling like there are no other options for them, there are no other choices for them, that they just have to go through it. It’s just part of being a woman. And the kinds of stories that I hear, even if you go back and listen to the Pill Reality series, you hear some of those things where the person is experiencing a lot of negative stuff and they continue to deal with it for six months, eight months, a year or more, just because that’s kind of what we do as women. Even if you just look at the issue of period pain as a separate issue from birth control, many women just suffer with it and ultimately we just don’t feel that we have the options. Hopefully these types of conversations just help you realize like it doesn’t have to be that way. There are other options. And especially as it relates to the birth control conversation, fertility awareness methods are an actual legitimate option for those who have the opportunity, time, and desire to dedicate to learning it. So hopefully these episodes, especially if you’re listening and you’re kind of on the fence, you’ve been thinking about it for a while, obviously not to push you before you’re ready, but just to give you that confidence so that you can avoid pregnancy until you’re ready to conceive, or if you have no plans of having children, to feel confident about using this method to prevent pregnancy to the highest possible efficacy. So with that said, I hope you have a wonderful week, weekend, whenever you’re tuning into the show. And of course, as always, until next time, be well and happy charting.