Endometriosis Pain Management and the Menstrual Cycle (Episode 420)

Full Transcript: Episode 420

Lisa Hendrickson-Jack: Welcome to the Fertility Friday podcast, your source for information about the fertility awareness method and all things fertility. I’m your host, Lisa Hendrickson-Jack. I’m the author of the fifth vital sign and the fertility awareness mastery charting journal. I’m a certified fertility awareness educator and holistic reproductive health practitioner with nearly 20 years of experience teaching women to connect to their fifth vital sign through menstrual cycle charting, balancing hormonal health, and optimizing the menstrual cycle without hormones. I’m outspoken about hormonal birth control and its impact on fertility and overall health because you have the right to know how your body works and how artificial hormones disrupt that natural process. I teach women’s health professionals how to utilize the menstrual cycle as a vital sign in their practices and I host live coaching programs to help you achieve optimal fertility and health because it’s important to have healthy menstrual cycles regardless of whether or not you want to have babies. I’m also a wife and mother of two beautiful boys. I know I’m a busy girl but I managed to fit it all in. This podcast is designed to empower you to take full control of your cycles, your fertility, and your overall health. And I’m so excited that you’re here with me today.

Today I’m sharing an extremely powerful and very informative interview with Stasha Washburn and she shares her experience with endometriosis and how she has learned to manage over the years severe endo. And so you know in today’s episode we really get into it and she gives us good details about how she experiences this pain with her periods when it started and what finally made a difference. So there’s a lot of topics that we cover in today’s episode from CBD and the potential application of CBD, cannabis and cannabis oils and different cannabis products for pain relief. And we get into the patriarchy and more specifically, because I think people throw around the word patriarchy and it can be very, very general and not necessarily specific, but in particular that desire for women to function in society as men and be held to that same 24-hour clock. And what that means for cycling women who do have to deal with issues like period pain and things like that. And so we talk a little bit about that issue and how it can play in to your experience especially if you’ve experienced painful periods and the kind of pressures that can come out of that. So there’s so many great topics that we cover in today’s episode.

So before we jump in, I’m just going to take a minute to share a little bit about Stasha. Stasha is the period coach, the bloody kind not the grammar kind. She is the founder of Period Coaching School, certifying coaches to incorporate menstrual cycles into the work, and the author of The Revolution Will Be Bloody. Stasha is also a dancer, cook, sword fighter, tai chi practicing speaker, skateboarder, INTJ, foul-mouthed, football-loving, digital nomad. Basically, pinning her down is nearly impossible. She’ll go anywhere as long as there’s a tea kettle and WiFi. She is a certified holistic health coach and 20 plus years of research has fueled her passion to reconnect women to the power in their period. Stasha is leading the bloody revolution to end the taboo of menstruation worldwide. So without further ado, let’s go ahead and jump into today’s episode.

Lisa: And I’m excited to be here today with Stasha Washburn. We have met a couple times. You had invited me to speak for your period coaching program, and on your podcast, and now you’re on my podcast, and so I’m really excited to have you. And so first of all, congratulations on your new book, The Revolution Will Be Bloody. So we’re gonna have to talk a little bit about that. Great title and great cover because I feel like there’s like a splash of blood on it. It’s very fitting. So I guess the first most fitting question would be tell us a little bit about what drew you to period coaching and what inspired you to write your book, The Revolution Will Be Bloody.

Stasha Washburn: Well, I think the easiest answer is I have endometriosis. And so being a teenager who passed out every month because the pain would hit so hard in high school is not cool, that did not make me one of the cool kids, I will say. So yeah, I knew something was really wrong. And at the time doctors said no, you can’t have endometriosis. If you’re a teen, it takes years to develop in the body, so that can’t be the problem. So I went through my 20s and into my 30s thinking that I was just, I don’t know, broken. Like it couldn’t, it was not something diagnosed, you know, it was just couldn’t be endometriosis, even though it was like a classic viral symptoms, pain, the brain fog, the fatigue, like everything was like a textbook example of endometriosis. My mom had it, my aunt had it. It was just like everything listed. And then actually I had become, I had started working with women in menstruation and I was on a panel with a bunch of doctors during an endometriosis panel on it. And the doctors were like, yeah, you have endometriosis. I don’t know, just you have endometriosis, it’s okay. And I was like, all right, great, thank you. So that’s really what started it because I was trying to figure out how to get out of the pain. Like every month being in an overwhelming amount of pain for days in a row and not being able to function. Nothing worked. I was on every kind of birth control, including some that were actually recalled for killing too many women. Like I was on all of them, narcotics, everything, and nothing helped. So I was on this mission to just end the pain. Kind of the problem, though, is the endometriosis isn’t a typical hormonal imbalance. So it wasn’t fixable that way, but I was able to fix all of my friends. So all my friends’ problems, I was able to help and fix and get them back up and running. And I thought, I should just do this for a business. Like I can help everyone else, I might as well just do that. Like if I can help anyone else avoid what I went through, then that’s a win for me. So I got my health coaching certification and then quickly moved into hormonal balance coaching and then just sort of embraced the whole concept of period coaching as an industry and big umbrella.

Lisa: Well, thank you for taking us through that. I do want to stick on your endo for a bit because, I mean, there’s just so much there. So one practical question is, so for timeframe, I’m not sure you and I are probably about the same age, but give us like a decade, like when was this, was it that long ago that you were going through this as a teen? And obviously everyone was just like with their fingers in their ear like, that’s fine, it’s outside.

Stasha: Yeah, I was a teen in the 90s. So I graduated high school in 98 and I, I mean, I was a dancer, I was very thin, I got my period later than most people did, but I was still in high school. So it was definitely like, I don’t know, 96, 97 probably, well maybe even 95. I know I was a little bit later, but it’s funny because my mom had four kids and none of us can remember when I got my period. I think I’ve blacked out most of my high school experience. But none of us can remember, but somewhere in the 90s. And then yeah, through the 2000s, and even into the tens is, I think that was my 30s is when I really started to figure things out and how to get it into like a semblance of remission, I call it, because I know if I screw up, I’m right back to where I started. So I call it remission, but yeah. So 90s, early aughts.

Lisa: Yeah, so yeah, you and I are around the same age because I graduated in 2000. I just wanted to put that out there because I mean, it was a while ago. I mean, you think, oh, it’s so much better now. It’s been 20 years, right?

Stasha: It’s probably marginally better in the sense that you probably wouldn’t have had a bunch of doctors being like it couldn’t be, you know, because of your age, I think that might be what’s different now. I would hope. But that doesn’t mean that it is. It’s so interesting how you can have certain symptoms and experiences. So this is something I’m sure you hear a lot as well. So in your case, it was like, you’re too young to have this condition. I’ve heard women with PCOS, right? Their doctors are like, you’re too skinny to have this condition and all that kind of stuff. And so obviously what you learned out of that has fueled into your business and everything, but maybe share a little bit about how you talk to your clients about dealing with that. Because unfortunately, it’s still a thing.

Lisa: And according to, there was this research study that’s been quoted a lot, and I know I quoted it in my book. And between the United States and the UK, on average, it takes a woman with endometriosis eight to, I think it was eight to twelve years, if I’m remembering correctly, to get a diagnosis. And this is, so this is solidified in the research. So in your case, it sounds like it did take like over 10 years maybe.

Stasha: I mean, I still don’t technically have an official diagnosis. Like I’ve still, you know, I’m in America. I didn’t have health insurance. So you need a laparoscopic procedure to get an actual full-on diagnosis, but even maybe more like, we can change the verbiage. It took like 10, 15 years to get acknowledgement the condition that you clearly have. Yeah, I mean, it probably took me a legit 15 to 20 years to get a doctor to finally go, yeah, that’s definitely endometriosis. But like I said, I didn’t have health insurance. So it’s not like I, you know, I would go into Planned Parenthood for my exams every couple of years and I would just tell them like I have endometriosis and they go okay and move on. So they never really asked about it. And I just figured that was the easiest way to talk to them about it. But at the end of the day, didn’t make a difference. There was nothing that they could do at the time.

Lisa: Well and the title of your book is The Revolution Will Be Bloody. And I feel like when I hear stories like this and share them on the podcast, to me it’s so obvious that women’s health issues are not prioritized, right? It’s just not a thing that is on the front of the line in terms of importance. So maybe share a little bit about that. Like from your perspective, why is it that the doctors wouldn’t take it seriously?

Stasha: Yeah, for the most part they just kept saying well if you’re not responding to any medications then it must just not be a physical problem. So at some point it just went from well we’ve put you on every kind of birth control, we’ve worked you up from prescription ibuprofen into narcotics, it doesn’t make any difference to your pain levels, so it must not be a physical problem. And that was that. So meaning for anyone who didn’t catch that, it’s literally an emotional problem. And it’s in your head and you’re basically making it up. Yeah, they said everything except for just saying you’re making this up, it must be in your head. Like they said everything that it’s not, leaving just like otherwise get out of my office.

I did have one doctor who I have to like give her credit for, even though she had, she, you know, also said, you know, I don’t think it can be endometriosis. It needs time to develop. But she at least tried. She’s a Native American heritage. And she was like, well, let’s try cooking differently. Let’s try getting your energy levels up. Let’s try like, I tried being vegetarian, I tried being vegan. I tried a few things even in high school, just to, you know, like way, way, way back in the day to try and do it and it actually made it worse. So she was like, well, let’s try eating red meat. Let’s try cooking in iron, like let’s cast iron. So she at least tried. And I do have to give her credit for that. At least to have that like acknowledgement that it could have something to do with my diet or or how I’m eating or yeah, and she didn’t write me off. She actually believed me. So even though she couldn’t help, she at least believed me, and that made a big difference.

Lisa: Well, so let’s talk. There’s all these things that I feel like we should cover because I, you know, with endometriosis, there’s a lot of, there’s always a conversation going around it. And in my case, I often talk about the birth control pill and how it doesn’t cure or fix anything, how it treats symptoms and typically will lessen symptoms, but it doesn’t fix the root cause. And some, I think these days I get less, you know, metaphorical tomatoes thrown at me. I feel like it’s a little bit different. You know, in the early 2000s, I feel like people were more like, you can’t criticize the pill, it’s anti-feminist. And now people have like slowed the roll and settled down and realized that the pill isn’t perfect. So share your experience then on the pill. Because what you’re saying is that you tried all these pills, but obviously you didn’t just like then have a wonderful vacation life with no pain.

Stasha: No, I still went down every month like a ton of bricks.

Lisa: Even on the pill.

Stasha: Even on the pill. Yeah, I was on a whole bunch of different kinds of pills. And then I was put on the patch when it was experimental. So that was the one that actually ended up getting recalled. And I know that they’ve like fixed it, improved it, made a new version of it. But that was the one that eventually my doctor was like, okay, we have to take you off this because it’s been recalled. And I was like, you know what, I’m done. That was it. I was like, I’m done. None of this worked. I’ve been on I don’t even know how many different prescriptions now. I’m about to get kicked off my parents insurance. So and I was a dance major. So it’s not like I was getting a high-paying job. So I was like, yeah, no, we’re done. Just get me off of everything.

Lisa: Okay, well, so I’m asking these nitty-gritty questions. So when you were on the pills, so, you know, most of the pill formulations, I know when I was on the pill, they put me on Ortho Tricyclen. I feel like it was like the popular one in the late 90s.

Stasha: Yep, definitely was on that one.

Lisa: At that time, girls talked, so I sometimes would take two packs continuously if my period, my withdrawal bleed, fell on an inconvenient time. So were you doing strategies like that to try to manage it, to try to knock out your periods?

Stasha: No, I had no idea you could do that. I had no idea that was even an option. Because they didn’t talk about it then like they do now. No, no, it wasn’t. It was no one ever mentioned it to me. And I think maybe, first of all, I didn’t have the best high school experience. So I didn’t really have a lot of friends. So the theme, I moved a lot. So it’s kind of continuously the new kid. And then I was the weird one who passed out every time she got her period. And it was gross and TMI. So I definitely wasn’t making friends. So I didn’t really know many other people who were on birth control in high school. And then like I said, in college, I aged out of my parents’ insurance. So at that point I had just said I gave up on it altogether.

I did have a friend later who had endometriosis and she did do that. And so she would allow herself like one period every six months or so, and only because she would start to have spotting. And then she would just call in to work, she would tell them she was sick, she would take the week, she would have her period, she would not leave her house, she would order like a box of booze to just get through it and then would just stay in her room for like a week, have her period, be in pain, basically numb it the best way she could. And then when she moved to California, she got a prescription for medical marijuana and that made a bigger difference. And I found the same thing actually. When I moved to California and I was able to get medical marijuana, I found that that made a bigger dent in my pain management levels than any of the drugs.

And I don’t want to pretend like I didn’t. I used to trade shifts at work with people who had prescriptions like Vicodin or any kind of like pain management thing. So I would trade shifts for a like prescription pain pill from time to time just so that if I happened to have to work and it really got me, I would have something that it could at least help me stand up if not like help the pain so much, but at least I wasn’t like passing out. I could just stand up and make it through a shift. But yeah, so we really like discovered that cannabis made a big difference. And I found that really fascinating in my research of endometriosis the last couple years, how they’ve seen the endocannabinoid system not working properly in people with endometriosis and such overwhelming numbers of pain management with cannabis for endometriosis being better than prescription pills. There was an Australian study. I want to say it was in 2020 that was 75, 78 percent of respondents found that cannabis made a better pain management system and got them off of prescription pain management. So like a huge percentage of this study said that’s a pretty, that’s a huge — it’s not so for anyone who doesn’t research a lot, it’s not that typical that you get a 75 to 80 percent response rate, even for things that work. Yeah, it was absolutely nuts. And it was just like, wow, that made a bigger impact than prescription pain meds across the board. And some of the respondents said that they had gotten rid of all of their prescription pain management in favor of using cannabis. So whether it’s THC or CBD or some combination thereof, but using cannabis instead saw more improvement. And I had the same experience.

Lisa: Well, let’s talk a little bit about that because obviously the cannabis conversation, there’s a lot of different ways it can be administered. So I think one of the very practical questions is like, you know, maybe not everybody would feel comfortable smoking weed and getting high, for example. So for someone who’s like, I want pain management, maybe share a little bit about the different ways that it can be administered depending on a person’s comfort and preference.

Stasha: Yeah, I have experimented with all of the ways because it’s quite literally the only thing that made a dent for a long time until I realized the diet and lifestyle stuff that I could do that really made the biggest difference. But I tried everything and I still do because it’s still one of my tools in my toolkit. So generally what I do is I got CBG — which has preliminary studies have shown that it can make a really big dent for pain management — like absolutely CBG, like the letter G, Google it, but it ends with G for good. But actually I find that that one is really helpful. So I have gummies of it, I also have the herb of it, which I have turned into an oil for edible consumption. And I kind of rotate between smoking and edibles. So oftentimes when I know I’m getting into that pain window, I’ll take an edible, but I will also smoke something. So while the edible takes 40 minutes to an hour to kind of kick in, I have that bridge of smoking something, which I know not everybody loves. But for me it’s a nice way of bridging the gap until the edibles start to really kick in.

So the CBG by itself without the smoking — so in your experience, still it does help, it just, yeah, obviously it takes a bit of time for your body to process it. Similar to an Advil. Yeah, exactly. I mean, like last month we had my partner’s daughter with us when I got on to day one. So I, you know, obviously I don’t want to set a bad example and be outside smoking. So maybe when she’s older and understands. But so I just did edibles the whole time. Like I just had a spoonful of the CBD olive oil that I make. I just had a spoonful of that first thing in the morning when I woke up at about 5am with cramps. And I was like, okay, here we go. So I just went and took a big spoonful of the CBD oil. And yeah, just as effective. It just takes a little longer to kick in.

Lisa: So does it require the THC component in order for it to have the pain relief effect?

Stasha: I will say for me it makes a difference to have a little bit of the THC as well. Like it helps to activate it or something. Or maybe it just helps my anxiety go away. So I’m not holding on to the tension because there is PTSD with endometriosis.

Lisa: Well, I’m sorry, just for the listener who may not know. So the THC — that’s the active compound in cannabis that makes you high.

Stasha: Yes, it’s what I call the fun compound. It’s the one that gives you the high, but you know, it’s like anything else. Like you can have a glass of wine and you’re just a little bit happier. You can have two glasses of wine and you’re in a buzz. You have three glasses of wine and now you’re drunk. So it’s like the same thing. So you can have a little bit of THC. And for me, it’s just enough to release the anxiety a bit, release some of the tension, relax, maybe get out of my head a little bit. I find that I can get into the muscle of the pelvic area and kind of just relax the muscle and the pain will ease off. So for me, it’s that nice combo of the two. But like I said, even if I’m just on the road and need something, even just like a CBD oil or gummy will make a difference.

Lisa: So for me, I mean, I will never know. I think I may have had a touch of endo, but on the scale. And one of the things that you’ve probably noticed as well is everyone minimizes their pain. Because I felt that coming on, that tendency to minimize my own pain. So I’m going to call it out. So when I would experience my painful periods and I had them from the first day, I don’t recall having to miss school because I was able to use Advil. So Advil did work, but I had to take it in the window. So the first inkling that my period is coming, I have to take it immediately. And if you didn’t take it in the window, then it’s just like the whole day it would just be screwed. And so my pain was such that I, like when it was in the full force, I wouldn’t really be able to do anything. So I’d be on the floor rolling around, kind of feeling like I was in labor with no baby. And I often describe it very graphically as it felt like someone was reaching up and squeezing my colon from the inside. Obviously not in a nice way. So anyways, so I share that. And then when I had my first and second child, you know, vaginally, I did find that the first half of labor was actually like, I didn’t even think I was in labor with my first because I was like, this can’t be it. I thought it was Braxton Hicks, legitimately, but it was full-on contractions. So just to give a sense of like, for anyone who heard that it’s like in your head, it’s not. So I’d love for you to take a minute to describe the pain in however you need to describe that with whatever language makes sense, so that if anyone hasn’t experienced it, or if we have an honorary man listening, that he could try to understand.

Stasha: So for me, it started off often a week before my actual period would come with feeling like I was being stabbed from the inside out, or like there was a crown of barbed wire inside pushing out, but also squeezing in. So it really felt like it was internal, and it really felt like it was squeezing and pushing at the same time. And the closer that it got, the worse it got, to the point that the pain would hit me and come in these waves that would just crash and I would go completely white — and if you’re listening, just know that I am Polish so you don’t get a whole lot whiter than me — but like even people around me would go, oh girl, what’s happening? And I would start to sweat. And then if you imagine having the worst food poisoning of your entire life for a week straight. So you’re sweating, you’re shaking, you’re freezing but you’re sweating, and you’re just shaking uncontrollably. You’re being stabbed inside, just all the way around from back to front, the whole pelvic cradle from belly button to hips just completely felt like it was on fire being stabbed. I couldn’t stand up. I couldn’t get out of the fetal position. I was on the floor of the bathroom. My dad wanted to call an ambulance. My mom would say it’s her period, what is an ambulance gonna do? I would pass out. I passed out in the shower. I passed out in front of my locker. I passed out in English class. Those are the ones I remember. I tried not to pass out on the subway when I lived in New York City, several times clinging to the pole because it was cold and I would just put my face on it, trying to hold on to consciousness until I could get off the subway and home. And I would just sit in the bathtub if I could make it into the bathtub and just make the water so hot. I did burn myself a few times but it brought a little bit of relief. And it would throw up for three days from the pain, so long past having even bile left in me. I could suck on ice, which was nice because then there’s something to throw up. But oftentimes the question was, do I throw up in the sink? Because I’m on the toilet now, hemorrhaging everything from every — just violent diarrhea, bleeding, copious amounts. Do I throw up in the sink? Do I throw up in the trash can? Where do I aim? Because I’m just being evacuated. And not just for the 12 hours that food poisoning gets you, but for three days straight every single month. And nothing that I could do to avoid it, nothing I could do to stop it, nothing that I could do to ease it. I knew that as soon as I lived through it, I would be coming out the other side. I’d have about two weeks before we started again. And then I’d be going through it for another about two weeks between the brain fog, the fatigue, the cramping starting all the way into basically the crescendo of the day before first day and second day of my period, where I would just be violently ill. And in such pain that I sometimes thought, if I could hold down this whole bottle of narcotics and just call it a day, I would accept that. I knew that I would be throwing up again in 10 minutes. And that would be an absolute waste of a very valuable commodity in my world. So I seriously contemplated ending it a number of times because I knew there was no getting out of it, and I had 30 to 40 years ahead of me of doing this. And I’m very glad that like I couldn’t hold anything down and I was absolutely not going to inflict more pain on myself than I was already living through. So I’m very glad that that was what happened because I did find a way to remission and I did find a way to not being in such pain and now I’ve been able to work with other people and get them out of it as well and I feel like I saved my life and now I’ve been able to return the favor and help others and save some other lives along the lines. But it was no joke. I mean, I would have landed in the hospital many times had I had health insurance, I’m sure, but I just didn’t. So I just laid in the bathroom on the floor. My blessed roommate in my twenties used to bring me pillows and blankets into the bathroom and just work around me for those days. And just with like, it’s okay. An amazing man, I have to say. Very, very gay, very, very amazing, had nothing to do with periods, didn’t want to know anything about any of it, but still was there with like ice chips and blankets and pillows and worked around me on the floor of the bathroom. And God bless him. Because I think he probably was one of the big reasons I stayed alive through my 20s.

Lisa: Wow. You know, I’ve heard a lot of stories. I’ve never heard a story like that. I’m so sorry you had to go through that. I am too. I definitely, I think sometimes today that you go through stuff like that and you have to look for the silver lining because otherwise it’s just crushing. And I am very thankful that I found a way through it, and I am very thankful that I’ve been able to help others figure it out as well. And I’m thankful that it brought me to doing this work because it really made me angry. Made me very angry. And it took me a very long time to get through that anger. But now I use it for good.

Well, so after hearing your story, and I mean, thank you, that’s why I ask. I always ask because, you know, that can be glossed over. So I always try to ask you to describe it for yourself. So even going back to the beginning of our conversation when you mentioned that you went to all these doctors and they were like, no, you’re too young. So did that mean that what you were experiencing was normal? If there was a man that experienced that for a week or two every month, no one would think it’s okay. It’s not okay just because it’s happening with your period. That doesn’t make it okay. And I’m at the point where, because of course now your story on the podcast, oh well, mine wasn’t that bad. But we still shouldn’t have this degree of pain. We need to understand that there is such a thing as a normal period, it does not involve any of the things that you shared. So for me, what stands out for the could it be endo — obviously the degree of pain, that is something in and of itself. But the fact that you mentioned you had pain for a week before, and then the throwing up and the excessive, unrelenting vomiting and things like that, there is the difference between kind of like period cramps and then some of those bigger signs of potential endo. And especially one of them is the symptoms that are happening outside of the period and the severity.

So question. Now with everything that you know now, could you share with us — I did a while ago, I’ll find the interview and link it — I had an interview with a researcher and she had done research on epigenetics. And she was talking about how, for example, when your mother was pregnant with you, if she is exposed to certain toxins at the time when your endometrium is developing, that that could potentially be linked to a greater chance of endometriosis in the future. So if she’s exposed to certain toxins or chemicals like dioxins, etc., there’s the genetic component. You know, you mentioned that your mom experienced this and your aunt. In terms of the why that you were predisposed to this, and then in terms of the environmental factors that obviously worsened it. So from that perspective, if you could go back and pick up that lovely girl on the floor and give her hope, like what would you tell her? Maybe just take us through some of the strategies that you’ve now learned, incorporated and used with your clients.

Stasha: I think probably the thing that would have the biggest impact would say, stop trying to fit into this patriarchal hustle culture and take care of yourself before anything or anyone else. I think that one of the biggest mistakes people make is trying to get their hormones back into balance, help deal with whatever the problems they may be having to get back to normal life. And it’s not about getting back to normal life. It’s about recreating a life that takes care of you. I tell myself now, don’t forget this when you get into menopause. If the symptoms end with menopause, which doesn’t always happen. People do have endometriosis into menopause. The pain can still jump and activate. Inflammation can happen. And I know that my endometriosis now, every injury I’ve had throughout my life is inflamed and aches. My knees, the arthritis in my knees, the wrists that were crushed, the shoulder from the car accident, like everything hurts in that time just aches. So acknowledge that it may not ease with menopause, but it may. And I do not want to leave that lesson behind and pretend like, okay, now I can go play with the patriarchy. Like I do not want anything to do with it ever again. And that would have helped me make the health changes that I needed to make and the lifestyle changes that I needed to make much earlier and much more consistently.

Every endo person that I have worked with has some kind of inflammation, whether it’s like a gluten insensitivity or dairy. And honestly, it’s been one of those two with everyone, or both. So it would have been easier for me to have said like, okay, it’s the gluten, I’m not gonna do this, if I wasn’t living in Los Angeles trying to keep up, to go out, to hit the restaurants. You know, I worked at restaurants. I ran a restaurant for God’s sakes. Like I owned a pop-up restaurant for a couple of years. Like it would have been much easier for me to have like disconnected from all of that if I had just had that like one principle really set down. And then even with all the dietary changes that I made, giving up the sugar, the caffeine, the gluten, the dairy, like everything — I still had endometriosis symptoms because I still was like, I’m going to start my business, I’m going to be a health coach, I’m going to help women with their periods, I’m going to work 24/7 and establish this amazing business. I’m going to do everything that the dudes tell me to do for running a business. And then of course I got all of my symptoms right back.

And that’s actually when I started going, okay, maybe I need to run my business with my period. And I started looking into that research. And then I started actually running my business with my period. And I started teaching all of my clients how to run their businesses with their cycles. And that really created a huge cornerstone of what I teach now — how to live your life in flow, how to run your business with flow. And it’s all about just opting out of the patriarchy. And the one thing that we come back to with every class, with everything I teach, is put the busy badge of honor down. The shoulds will be there tomorrow. You don’t have to deal with them today or tomorrow or the next day even. It’ll be there next month. Letting go of that panic hustle culture that’s been so ingrained in us makes a bigger difference than anything else. But it’s the hardest too.

Lisa: I want to explore that a little bit more. I still have a couple of questions. So following up, we talked about the pill and the kind of lackluster, but the potential, if you had known that you could have taken the pill packs back to back, maybe that could have reduced the frequency of the ridiculousness. You mentioned the drugs. You mentioned all of the drugs — starts with Advil, that’s not strong enough; naproxen, that’s not strong enough; narcotics. So tell us about briefly like, I basically want to cover all the parts to this endo. Because the one thing that I found, like I said my experience, I thought it was pretty bad right? Like it was not good, I couldn’t function. It wasn’t the same degree of severity, but I tried a bunch of stuff, right? Like you try this and that and you’re kind of looking for this magical thing, but there is no magical thing. Like there’s things that help, like you said, tools in your toolkit. But talk about the drugs. Did any of them work? And it sounds like you were vomiting them up, so there would have been a limited amount that they could have worked.

Stasha: Yeah, if I could get like you said, if I could get one in at the very first whisper of pain, I could get one in and that could help.

Lisa: So your pain was obviously a ten out of ten, probably more than that. So if you were to get the drugs in at the first whisper, would it go down?

Stasha: It’s almost like the pain didn’t go down, it just made me a little less conscious. Like, so the prescription ibuprofens, right, like the horse pill ibuprofens and like the codeine-coated Tylenols — none of those made a dent at all. But when I got onto the narcotics, I think Darvocet was the one that made the most impact, but it wasn’t so much that it made the pain go away, just kind of made me a little bit unconscious. Like it just sort of made me like nap a bit. Like I’d be laying on the couch. I remember thinking like the Batman cartoon was very colorful, even though it was like black and white.

Lisa: So you were like a little loopy and that made it more tolerable.

Stasha: Yeah, yeah, I was a little loopy. I was on the couch, but I would have dreams about being stabbed. I would have dreams about barbed wire being wrapped around my hips and cutting me. And I would wake up thinking I was bleeding. Like I would wake up and put my hands over like where my uterus is or my hips, and look down at my hands expecting to see blood because I would have these dreams that I was being stabbed or cut or ripped apart or literally physically being ripped apart. So you know, is that better? Like, what kind of made me feel weird.

Lisa: Yeah, like those are — in a way like, so I think I’ve only taken the, you know, strong pain pills a couple of times. Like I had migraines, probably because of the pill. I didn’t know it at the time. The only time I’ve ever had migraines was on the pill. And so then my doctor instead of being like, hey, you know, the pill could cause migraines — of course this was the 90s — so he’s like, oh take this other pill. I just remember having like a hallucination. It really freaked me out. And then I kind of never took those kinds of pills again. So I guess part of the reason I want to go through this is because to poke holes in the medical model, I guess. Like we do need to have access to these types of painkillers. They probably have better painkillers now, I would imagine. But some of them are probably like really highly addictive and like super problematic in other ways. But this is the thing, because ultimately none of those — like you tried all of those solutions and not one of those things gave you the lasting success. It sounds like the cannabis option has really made a difference and that would have made a big difference in your life, likely, if you had had access to it earlier. So it sounds like there’s like pieces to it. So the diet and lifestyle piece is reducing inflammation. I feel like that helps you to create a level of stability that is manageable. And then the other things help to like take you the rest of the way there. Was that your experience?

Stasha: 100%, 100%. So I started using the cannabis stuff before I figured out the lifestyle things and the diet things. And it made it so like I could rest. Like I still might have been in pain, but I could get into the bathtub and I could hold things down. Like it really helped with the nausea a lot. So like I could hold water down at least. Then when I made the diet and lifestyle changes, it’s now like that cannabis makes it so that like I can eat food. Like I can, and I find that when I can eat, the cramps are reduced, the pain also diminishes. So like if I can fuel myself, the pain isn’t as bad. So it’s this kind of incredible feedback loop where it’s like removing the inflammation, removing the stress and patriarchy lifestyle stuff makes, yes, a great baseline. Like I know that I’m gonna be okay now and like I can tap through the anxiety and be like, even though this was awful in the past, I’m gonna be okay. And I love and accept myself completely. Like I can tap through it now and it’s okay. But then I can also like, I reach that point in my cycle where I go, okay, I’m not doing anything anymore, let’s have some CBD, let’s take a nap, let’s have some THC, let’s take a nap or like watch a movie or whatever. But like those are my options now. We can take a nap or watch a movie or take a bath. And then that THC helps with the nausea and the appetite so that I can eat something. So like my boyfriend knows exactly what foods I can eat on my period that won’t make things worse. They’re soothing foods, so to speak. And he’ll come in and be like, here’s a cup of buckwheat porridge for you, babe. And I’ll be like, oh my God, this is amazing. And like I can eat it, and then that further reduces the pain and it also helps increase like my energy and helps get rid of that brain fog because I’ve got some fuel. So it’s this beautiful loop now that I can actually kind of help encourage and get through it, which kind of creates an upward spiral. Whereas without those tools, I have the downward spiral because I can’t eat, which makes the fatigue worse, which makes the cramps worse, which makes the pain worse, which makes me unable to eat more, which then makes me nauseous, which then puts me in the bathroom going, oh my god, I’m gonna start throwing up again. And that to me is one of the signs that I’m not okay. Like nausea is my kind of barometer now. So if I hit nauseous, it’s a bad one. And I haven’t actually thrown up in a long time. But that’s because I have the tools now. So if I hit nauseous, I go, okay, I can’t wait for this edible to kick in anymore, like I need to go smoke something. And usually I do a CBD with a little sprinkle of THC. And I’ll just go smoke that immediately, which will help reduce the nausea. And then it’s like, okay, now I can breathe. Now I can get the edibles time to kick in and do their thing.

Lisa: So if anyone missed the kind of overarching elephant in the room, endo is obviously a chronic condition that you manage.

Stasha: Yeah, at least at this point in time, yes. So it can be managed with the dietary lifestyle pieces and then the other tools depending on the situation.

Lisa: And I think that’s something too that women need to hear. For most of my clients, the pain is not as severe as in your case. But many of them do have quite severe pain. And you know, one of the things that I kind of explored on the podcast, you’ve probably explored all the things, is the abdominal massage therapy to potentially get into some of those adhesions and try to make a difference. So I think the only thing that like, no one can promise you that you’ll never have pain again, but for many of my clients who have pain on the moderate to severe end that’s not overly severe, do manage to get themselves to either minimum or no pain. It is actually possible for some women to get to the point where they’re not having pain. But that’s something that it’s not this magical tincture you take and then it’s all done. It’s a way that you learn to kind of get into that rhythm. Like you kind of understand that the vital sign piece of it and you’re kind of into that.

So you have mentioned the patriarchy a few times. And I think that’s, you also mentioned that kind of addiction to busy type of scenario. And I really love that, getting into that and that kind of part of the conversation because we do live in, to get all gender-y, but like we live in a man’s world. Like at the end of the day, everything was organized around the 24-hour cycle of a man. And what that means is that we are expected to have this daily productivity. And if you have a couple of days off from that productivity, then there’s all these problems or whatever. And often the goal, I think you would think the goal is just to like get rid of the pain, but I think the goal is to be able to then function like a man. You know, I feel like the goal for many would be to get rid of this pain so that I can just keep working, so that I can just keep, so I don’t ever have to stop and deal with this period thing, because it’s a pain in the ass, I don’t want to deal with it, etc. So maybe share your definition of patriarchy and talk a little bit about how that mindset makes it worse.

Stasha: Yeah, I mean, I really think of it as a culture that doesn’t accept any variation. So very much like racism or homophobia or any of the bigger structures that exist in our society, if you’re not basically a cis white man, you’re not accepted or acceptable. And I think of the patriarchy as a very — you have to fit into this very specifically sized box and you have to stay there and live and exist in that. And it is productivity, being a valuable member of society. You only have worth based on your net worth. There’s no other way of existing. Like you as a human being don’t have intrinsic value in the patriarchy. Existing should make you of worth. Like that should be the end of the sentence. You exist, you have worth. And therefore you deserve a healthy, happy life. And we don’t give ourselves that because we’re so busy trying to keep up with the Kardashians, so to speak, and achieve and get the notoriety and the awards. You know, I’ve got eight books out, I’m on a TV show, I’m a speaker — like all of these things. But you know what? You can actually do that without the patriarchal approach. You can still write books. You can still go on speaking tours. I do those things, right? I have a book. I have a card deck. I have another book coming out. I have a speaking tour. You can still do all of that stuff without subscribing to doing it the way it’s been set out for us as the patriarchal tools. And I think a perfect example of that is the scare tactics of marketing. That is a very toxic masculine — we call it sausage sales out there in the world. Like you’re too fat, like the bikini body. By definition, a body that is a bikini body is a body wearing a bikini. But as a fitness instructor for 10 years, I was out there yelling like, 10 more reps ladies, it’s bikini season coming up — being an oblivious tool of that patriarchal crap of having to look a certain way, fear-mongering my poor clients into doing 10 more reps because they needed to have the perfect body for bikini season. Like I hate that I did that now. I didn’t know. Now I know, and I do better. But that’s the thing. Like that’s the difference between a patriarchal view of a human body and kind of literally anyone else. I like to say an equality view is: you have a bikini on, you have a bikini body, go enjoy the beach.

Lisa: That’s a good example. Something else that you said that resonated with me from a business standpoint. So when I started my business, I specialize in vaginas, ladies. I mean, I know a lot about business now, but it wasn’t something that I had studied. I had studied the work that I do, what I teach. I hadn’t studied business. So I had to learn, right? There was a learning curve. And I certainly invested in order to get there. But at the beginning, I did initially start by following male entrepreneurs. And so what I found, especially because when I started my business, I was around that new mom stage. So it really didn’t fit. There’s certainly that conversation that can be had just about just being female and having a cycle and organizing your work around that. But then if you have the cycle thing and you also have the kid thing, the child thing, the baby thing, it’s just completely unreasonable. So I’m listening to these dudes talking about how they get up at five in the morning and they do all this stuff and they work all day. I learned very quickly that it just wasn’t gonna work. And so I ended up searching not just for a female business coach, I needed female business coaches that had kids and that had figured that out.

Stasha: Yeah, let me put it into perspective. I went to college on a talent scholarship, an academic scholarship, a work study, and I worked for student government to make money. I had an apprenticeship, and I had two majors that I completed in four years. Well, okay, not quite. And I did this with two weeks out of the month basically in the bathroom. Yeah, basically. I mean, I took a lot of drugs. I went to class when I was in dance classes and I had really bad days. I would take my water bottle and I would go lay on the floor of the studio and watch with my water bottle, and then I would get up to go throw up in the bathroom and I would come back to the studio and sit back down and continue watching class. But yet still you didn’t give yourself permission to stay home. No, no, no, because that’s not what you do. Not if you want to be successful. So I went, I did all of that. I did minimum 21 credits and I did all three summer semesters. So like I never was not in school for three and a half years. And meanwhile your body’s literally like screaming at you to slow the hell down. Yeah, desperate for a break.

Lisa: I feel like this whole conversation, like layers have been revealed. So it was like the first layer was like, the doctors didn’t believe me. And then the second layer was like, this is the pain, this is how bad it is, this is how I managed it. And I could see some people being like, wow, like CBD, especially if they have issues with that because it’s controversial. In Canada, it’s legal. I always say like I could get all the marijuana products but I can’t get raw milk because raw milk is illegal. It’s legitimately a paradox.

So if someone was like, oh wow, that sounds kind of like, whatever — it was like that. And then to add on to it, the fact that you were really driven and really not giving yourself an extra year to complete your program.

Stasha: No, no, no. I decided, well, I will say at the end, so I was on my third and a half year, I sat down with my advisor. She said the only thing you have to do — so I’d completed my dance degree, I had to do a semester of teaching, student teaching, to get my English literature and secondary education degree. And I looked at her and I went, no, I’m done. Just check me out with the dance degree. And she’s like, you’re literally one semester away from two degrees. And I was like, yeah, I’m done. Just check me out. And she was like, okay, great. I said, I’m gonna go to New York City. I’m going to go dance there. Like even if I got my teaching degree here, I would still have to certify all over again in New York, and I’m not going to do that until I’m done dancing. So forget it, I’m just going to finish off. And I did. I went to New York City. I went to Martha Graham Company. I did my best. I got invited to audition. My knees were starting to give out. And the physical therapist basically told me I would either need to have knee surgery or quit dancing, and I just didn’t have health insurance, so I went with quit dancing. Also I had been dancing in companies for 20 years, like I started when I was three. So I had already had a 20-year career as far as I was concerned. So around 23 is when I said, you know what, I’m gonna just stop doing this. And that was it. I was burnt out. Now looking back, I realized that I was burnt out. I was exhausted, I was barely functioning, and I still had to pay rent in New York City. So I basically just tapped out.

I did the exact same thing though when I started my business, right? So I figured out the diet and lifestyle thing while I was getting my health certification. I went to IIN, I got my health coaching certification. I took the 20 years of research that I had done trying to fix my period. So everything I knew about hormones and how to eat for your cycle. And I combined that with what I learned from the health coaching. And I came up with Food and Flow, which is still a free e-course that you can get through me. But it’s a 30-day eating program where you eat with your cycle. You choose foods that you love. You can get rid of things that if you suspect you want to get rid of, you know, like I went gluten-free and sugar-free and caffeine-free. So you can kind of pick, choose your own adventure. But it’s all these foods that help support your cycle in each phase. So I put all of that together. I tried it myself and I had my first what I call pain-free period. It was the first time I had my period and I didn’t know it was coming. Like I was getting fatigued, I was getting the brain fog, it was getting a little crampy. But like I got my period and I was shocked because I wasn’t on the floor already in pain when it came. So I was absolutely blown away. And I was like, okay, this works. Oh my god, this works. Like I can do this. I can health coach, I can work with women, I can help other people with period problems. Let’s go do this.

So then I followed the advice of working seven days a week, hustling. I had the pop-up restaurant. I was still teaching fitness classes. I was still teaching like ballet barre and yoga and Pilates. I was still working at a restaurant, waitressing. I was still running my pop-up restaurant. I was still running my farmers market booth every Sunday. And I was starting to see one-on-one clients as a health coach. So then I had a really bad period, like six months later, for obvious reasons. And I was back on the floor of my bathroom. And I went, oh my god, I don’t — there’s nothing left for me to give up. I can’t. The only thing I can do now is to give up time. And that’s when the light bulb went off. And I went, oh, that’s exactly it. I have to rest. Like I used to be able to spend my period in bed, really resting. And now I’m back on the floor of my bathroom. I need more rest. So yeah, that was when I was like, okay, how do I run my business with my cycle? Like how do I work for two weeks out of the month and have a successful business? And I got rid of the — I stopped teaching classes, I stopped working for other people, I just ran my restaurant and had my one-on-one coaching. And that’s when I started seeing studies come out that were like, your estrogen is tied to your verbal skills and your spatial skills go with your progesterone. And I was like, okay, so like if I do my writing work when I’ve got higher estrogen, and I do like my graphic work when I have more progesterone. So I started doing that. And then all of my clients had businesses. So I started experimenting on them. We’re gonna try doing this together. And they’d be like, okay, let’s do it. So we all experimented. I spent a year experimenting on myself and my clients and realized what worked and that I could run a full-time business in on average 22 hours a month, which is still my average.

Lisa: I’m so glad that you took us through that. Because that’s what you don’t get when you follow all the male influencers with these businesses. Like I said, I just feel like, and again, stereotypically, you know, forgive me. But at the end of the day, a lot of these male influencers, even if they have kids, they have a wife that takes care of those kids, or they have help. I don’t know that men necessarily have as many hang-ups about hiring help, like hiring an assistant, hiring someone to clean their house. Whereas it took me a lot of business coaching to feel comfortable getting support, actually having to acknowledge that the business is a real thing and I can’t actually physically babysit my kids while working and cleaning the house and making dinner. Those are like separate tasks. Childcare is a separate task to house cleaning, which is a separate task to cooking, which is a separate task to running the business. If you can understand that, then you’re kind of at step one — just literally understanding that they’re different jobs. But I feel like men don’t necessarily have the hang-ups around that or the judgment around having someone else do it for them.

Stasha: They don’t. I have business coached thousands of people. I worked for Ryan Eliason, who is an enormous seven-figure business coach in the US, and I did business coaching for his clients. I had male clients. And I can tell you right now that when I say to the dudes like, what kind of help and support do you need? They’re very clear. Like, well, I hate making food and I’m gonna hire, like I’m going to order in a box service or whatever. Like they’re very clear and confident on, I don’t want to do this, I’m hiring it out. Whereas the women are like, well, if I don’t make dinner, then my kids will just eat chicken nuggets every meal. And that’s not good. So like I can’t do anything about that. And the women will wishy-washy through the help that they need far longer before making a decision than my male clients ever did.

Lisa: So the realization that I had when I had my son was that I could no longer work more. And that was a huge thing for me, where there was literally no more time. And I can’t do an evening shift, I can’t do overtime, I can’t do another job, I can’t do any of that stuff, because I’ve got a child and I want to see him. I didn’t have a child so that I could never see him. So anyways, that was a huge thing for me. And I think for a lot of women, that might be their breaking point where they’re like, literally losing their crap. And then that’s when you reach out and get some business support. And this plays right into what you’re talking about with organizing things around your cycle. We could talk all day and we should probably start wrapping up here. But share with us just how this approach has helped your clients and you.

Stasha: Yeah, I think one of my favorite moments was having somebody that I started having her run her business with her cycle, and she came in one day and goes, well, you’ve saved my marriage. And I was like, okay, tell me more. She was like, now that I’m running my business with my cycle, I have free time and I’m actually seeing my husband. We’ve actually started using the same tips that you gave me for my business in our marriage. So we’ve started organizing like what we’re doing with my cycle. We acknowledge like my libido shifts and changes, the needs that are there and change like from week to week with my cycle. And you’ve literally saved my marriage. We were on the brink of divorce. We were talking about like, maybe this just isn’t working anymore. And this has come around to actually not just saving the business, but saving my marriage as well, which I did not anticipate when I started doing this. So that was like a real moment for me. And it’s happened several times since, actually. Yeah, it’s amazing to see how just being able to have free time to do the things that people want to do, to be able to enjoy themselves, and then to acknowledge that I want to go for a massive hike this week, but two weeks from now I want to have a chill yin yoga class or whatever. And that I’m going to see clients in this week, and I’m going to do back-end work in here, and reorganizing it so that it really works for them and with them.

And how this is one thing that you have to watch out for — because every one of them starts to panic because now all of a sudden they’re not working so hard, and they don’t understand. They get this feeling of like, I’m doing it wrong, because now I’m not working so hard and things are easy. And easy is not how you make money. You only make money through hard work. You only get clients through hustle. So all of a sudden things are easy and then they start to kind of self-sabotage themselves a little bit.

Lisa: Because you’re not used to sitting down and relaxing.

Stasha: Yeah, now I’m gonna do more groups and I’m gonna write the book and I’m gonna start a podcast and I’m gonna start a YouTube channel. I’m gonna do all of it at the same time because all of a sudden I have free time and I don’t know what to do with myself.

Lisa: Yeah, that’s so true, so true. Well, so tell us a little bit about your book, The Revolution Will Be Bloody, and where we can go to get it. And some of the topics — I’m sure we touched on some of them in there.

Stasha: Yeah, so it’s broken into three sections. So the first one is basically how we got so separated from our womb, from this knowledge, because we did know this stuff at one time. And it’s amazing to read old literature, like Taoist teachings from 3000 years ago, or like Ayurvedic writings from 2000 years ago, and see how they had the cycle totally mapped out, absolutely spot-on. Even like the things they suggested, right, perfect. And they also suggested cannabis for menstrual cramps, in very, very old writing. So like, it’s been around for a while. Yeah, they knew. So I kind of take you on the journey and I say, the first part of this book is going to make you very angry, but please don’t put it down, stick with me. So we go through that, and then in the second portion I talk about the cycle. I do a five-phase system. So here’s the five phases as I see them, here’s the hormonal changes, here’s what it’s supposed to feel like, here are the five senses to balance those hormones. So here’s the foods, the smells, the touch, the movement, the sights, the sounds, the spirit, the journal, the meditations to support each of these phases. So here’s like a section to just help get your hormones into balance in really truly easy everyday life. And you pick the things that you like. You love essential oils, start with the smell. You love working out, start with the movement. You love to journal, start with spirit. Just do whatever feels good for you. And then the last section is basically activism. What can you do? How can you use your money in a good way? How can you start conversations? How can you make a change that’s better for the environment? What are the options for green menstrual products? Here’s the bigger picture, and this is how we move forward together as a sisterhood. So we kind of take you through all of that in the book. I share my chart in the book, The Fan Mandala, which is not exactly a fertility awareness version, but tons of fun. And you get to see everything laid out really well for you. Your food, your digestion, your moods, your energy levels, your basal body temperature, like all the important things and all of the influential things, moon phases, all that good stuff. So we kind of take you through all of that in the book. It’s a real journey, but I promise you, if you get to the end, you will feel empowered, excited, and inspired. You just have to get through maybe the angry-making part at the beginning.

Lisa: It’s important though. There’s a lot to be angry about. I think the key is to be productive with that anger. I think you and I both found ways to channel that. Because I always say, and I’m only half joking, if I didn’t have my podcast and this work, I’d probably be standing outside somewhere with a sign just screaming at the top of my lungs.

Stasha: Same.

Lisa: So I think it is important to acknowledge the anger and not to minimize it as women too. Right? We’re supposed to shrink and not acknowledge anger. And one thing I did love about your book is that it is unique. You’re not doing a remake, if you will, because periods are really popular right now. It definitely does add something to the conversation, and it’s such an important piece of acknowledging all the different issues that kind of make our lives harder. Well, thank you so much for being here, Stasha. I kept you longer because our conversation was so rich. I’m really excited to share this interview with my audience. So thank you so much.

Stasha: Thank you for having me. This has been great. And last question, where can people go to find more about you? Where are all the social places and the website and all the things?

Instagram and Facebook is @stashawashburn. And Twitter, though that’s more politics than anything else. That’s where I go to be angry now. I do have a TikTok account these days, it’s stasha.theperiodcoach. And then online I have theperiodcoach.com, which is more like if you want to get help — I do Flow Freedom or any of those kinds of programs. And then I have periodcoachingschool.com. So if you want to jump in and become a period coach, I do the period coaching, the business coaching, you get the whole shebang there. So you can really go out and have a functional period coaching business. So those are the two options online.

Lisa: Awesome. Well, I will link all of the places in the show notes. And yeah, thanks again. This was a lot of fun.

Stasha: Thank you so much.

Lisa: Thank you for listening. I hope that you enjoyed today’s interview with Stasha. I just found this conversation to be so powerful and I loved all of the topics that we were able to delve into and I’m really thankful that Stasha shared her experience so openly because I know that she’s not the only one to struggle with this level of pain. And at the same time I still want to stress that although it’s not as common to experience this severe of pain, it doesn’t mean your pain isn’t bad. And that’s one of the things that I always want to stress because in my practice what I find is that it’s very common for women to minimize their pain because maybe many of us did know somebody similar to Stasha who would throw up or have this really horrible experience and even if you’re in a certain degree of debilitating pain, or even if the pain is not debilitating but it’s still bad enough to interfere with your day-to-day life, we’re still apt to kind of say, okay, well, my pain wasn’t as bad as hers so I can’t really complain.

And I really don’t want that to be the takeaway of today’s episode. Your pain doesn’t have to leave you in the bathroom for two weeks for it to be serious, and it should always be taken seriously. And this is why we should always go back to the vital sign conversation. If we think of our cycles and our periods as a vital sign, then anything outside of mild to moderate pain — that I always say doesn’t require medication, because I think that once it does require medication we should be aware that it’s outside of what we would consider optimal — but anything of that nature is telling us something about our body. It’s giving us a deeper sign. And of course, in Stasha’s case, when it’s so severe, it’s telling us something more. It’s basically telling us that there’s a serious, serious situation going on and we really need support for that. And the way that she was ultimately treated back in the 90s for her pain is basically just completely unacceptable. And so hopefully we can learn from that. Hopefully we can learn from her experience, and hopefully young women who do experience pain that bad are being cared for in a better way these days. We can hope.

If you yourself have experienced period pain to whatever degree, or you know somebody who has, I just want to direct you to a few resources about period pain. I do have several podcast episodes where I interview a variety of different professionals and different modalities that do talk about different approaches to resolving period pain. And hopefully the takeaway is that there are things that you can do. I wouldn’t say that there’s one magical thing that works for everybody all the time, but there are proven steps and strategies to reduce the pain. And for some women, they are able to really get it down to where they’re not needing medication anymore. It is possible, and that’s what I hope you take away. So if you head over to fertilityfriday.com/periodpain, it’s just a short list of the period pain related episodes. It’s kind of a short compilation, so you don’t have to dive through 400 odd episodes to find them. So again, fertilityfriday.com/periodpain, great place to start. So with that said, I hope you have a wonderful week, weekend, whenever you’re tuning into the show. And of course, as always, until next time, be well and happy charting.