Understanding Continuous Cervical Mucus (Episode 345)

Full Transcript: Episode 345

This is the Fertility Friday podcast, episode number 345.

Lisa: Welcome to the Fertility Friday podcast, your source for information about the fertility awareness method and all things fertility. I’m your host, Lisa Hendrickson-Jack. I’m the author of the fifth vital sign and the Fertility Awareness Mastery charting journal. I’m a certified fertility awareness educator and holistic reproductive health practitioner with nearly 20 years of experience teaching women to connect to their fifth vital sign through menstrual cycle charting, balancing hormonal health, and optimizing the menstrual cycle without hormones. I’m outspoken about hormonal birth control and its impact on fertility and overall health because you have the right to know how your body works and how artificial hormones disrupt that natural process. I host live coaching programs to help you achieve optimal fertility and health because it’s important to have healthy menstrual cycles regardless of whether or not you want to have babies. I’m also a wife and mother of two beautiful boys. I know, I know, I’m a busy girl, but I managed to fit it all in. This podcast is designed to empower you to take full control of your cycles, your fertility, and your overall health. And I’m so excited that you’re here with us today.

Today I’m sharing another new episode in my Fertility Awareness Reality series. And in today’s episode, I am sharing my interview with my client Grace. And we get to, as always, many important topics. And I think one of my favorite parts of the conversation is when we talk about what draws women to fertility awareness. Because sometimes, of course, it’s out of necessity. If you have really bad reactions from hormonal contraceptives, and you really need a non-hormonal option, because the hormones aren’t an option, then that’s a little bit different than when you are drawn to the method but there’s the reason is really just because you really resonate with it and it just makes so much sense to you and you love the body literacy aspect. So with that said let’s go ahead and jump into today’s episode with Grace.

And I’m excited to be here today with Grace. Grace is a member of my most recent fertility awareness mastery live program. We just wrapped up our sessions, and I think everything is still fresh. And it’s obviously really fun for me because then I get to spend some extra time with you. But yes, welcome to the show.

Grace: Thank you. Thank you so much for having me. I’m excited to be able to participate in this and just having finished the courses. It’s like you said, fresh, fresh in my mind.

Lisa: Yes, yes. Well, and I’d love to start by giving you an opportunity to share just a little bit about your history in terms of fertility awareness and cycle. So if you could share with us when you had your first period and basically how you manage your fertility, if you’ve ever been on hormonal contraceptives and what led you to want to incorporate fertility awareness now?

Grace: Yeah, absolutely. So my first period was a while ago, seventh grade, I think probably 13, 12 to 13. So that is when I crossed over. And I have always been into, like been very interested in body literacy, you know, we’re very cyclical beings as women and I think that’s very interesting and telling of our bodies, but so I hadn’t, I was not even like aware of fertility awareness at all until I heard your podcast. I was actually listening to a different podcast and you were on, you were like a guest on that podcast. And so then I was like, “Oh, I want to listen to this podcast.” So then I started to listen to your podcast and was completely like blown up, like was like, what is this? I had no idea. And so I had actually gone on birth control for like a very short period of time, um, because I always had felt like I didn’t really want to go on it. But then I was like, “Oh, well, it’s fine, I’ll just go on it.” And then I went on it for six months and then nothing bad happened, nothing crazy happened, but I just decided like after learning a little bit more about it, I was like, “Okay, I don’t want to do this.” And so then I had found your podcast and was like, “This is really cool. Like this is what I want. This is the type of thing that I want to do in terms of, you know, knowing about my body in terms of contraception and all of that kind of thing.” So I was very much, I got into it. And then I took your course ’cause I was like, I don’t really feel comfortable in like doing it on my own, needing some support and completely got all of that support in your course. So yeah, that’s kind of like my timeline. It was nothing dramatic that happened in terms of the pill or any other contraceptives, but definitely this was the way that I wanted to go with those type of things.

Lisa: It sounds like it just resonated with you on a deep level for whatever reason.

Grace: Completely, yeah, completely.

Lisa: That’s one of the things I always say because you can just imagine all the questions that people ask about fertility awareness, does it work and how hard is it and does it take so much time during the day and all of the questions I’ve heard hundreds of times. Recently I feel like I’ve been describing you a little differently ’cause I’m like, no one forces anyone to chart their cycles. This is not the thing that society is trying to get you to do. So if you’re doing this, you’re going against all of what society is basically telling you. And so it’s literally women who resonate with it, feel strongly about it, feel passionate about it, have that desire to kind of go down that rabbit hole, learn about their bodies and the connection to their health. And so I think there’s a lot to be said for just, it just clicked with me and I wanted to do this and that’s it.

Grace: Yeah, it’s so true, completely, yeah. And it’s like, I think you had said this in our last session. It’s kind of surprisingly easy and like surprisingly methodical. Of course, there’s a learning curve. Of course, you have to like get used to it and get comfortable with it. But it’s like very black and white. It’s not like it’s this intricate complicated thing that you only can figure out if you’re some sort of yogi in touch with your body. No, it’s just like you just read the signs and then you figure out what’s going on with your body. So that’s super cool. And I think that’s something that people don’t know. Like fertility awareness is not, it’s if people know about it, their immediate reaction is just like, oh, well, I think it’s like 50% effective.

Lisa: Yeah, like no method. Yeah, it’s really, yeah, it’s a really interesting, I love the analogy of learning to drive or learning to drive a standard car or something like that. ‘Cause I mean I first learned to drive and then I learned to drive a standard car. And I mean, in many ways, like if there’s a learning curve and it’s complicated, like I couldn’t figure out that clutch thing for a little while. But then the more you do it, the more it just becomes natural and then you don’t really think about it. And I think that applies to basically anything that we learn in life. And so, yes, there are complexities. And I think a lot of the complexities that my clients are facing are due to kind of the modern life that we lead. So I was talking to some of my fertility awareness colleagues about this recently and 30 years ago, people were teaching fertility awareness FYI. Obviously it wasn’t like there was no podcasts and stuff. So it was not as big, but people were doing this 30 years ago. And during that time, I would imagine that the average client would have had a different experience because the average client likely wouldn’t have been on the pill for 5, 10, 15, 20 years. They wouldn’t necessarily have had the chemical exposure and kind of the level of difficulty. I think a lot of us struggle with all kinds of illnesses that are really attributed to modern life. If you break it down and think about it on like a deeper level. And so 30 years ago the average woman, probably if she had used birth control, probably not that long, you know, she probably more of the clients would have had what I call virgin cycles, meaning you’ve never used it before. And yes, people still had issues back then, but it primarily would let like, you know what, I’m conjecturing a little bit here, but I think everyone can appreciate what I’m saying. Whereas today, it’s very, very different. So the vast majority of my clients, as you know, because you were in the class, are coming off of birth control and there is a transition period that you saw with your eyes when you come off of it. And there are certain things that happen. And of course, every woman’s experience isn’t the same, and it can happen in a variety of ways. But basically, a lot of us are experiencing challenges with the cycle. So it doesn’t make the method harder, you know, in a sense, like to understand. But when you don’t have the textbook 28 days, five days of perfect clear mucus and, you know, ovulation, very obvious and everything just so, then I think more women need guidance, I guess you could say.

Grace: Absolutely.

Lisa: Yeah, so that’s just kind of an observation. I think it’s important for people to hear, because especially for me kind of being in this field for all these years, so it’s just to put it into context. So anyways.

Grace: No, yeah, I think that’s completely true. Like your knowledge and the knowledge of making those connections is completely necessary. Like I would not have been able to do it on my own because I can ask you like, “Hey, what does this weird thing mean?” And you can tell me the exact cause of those things. And that’s also to say, it’s very, another thing that I love about this method is that it kind of gives me the power to heal my own body. So like, I see this thing happening. And then, of course, since you are very knowledgeable on the subject, and all of the teachers, I’m assuming, are very knowledgeable on this subject, I can ask, okay, so what might be the cause of this thing. And then what the answer is, is often like diet or lifestyle or those things that I can personally change or experiment with changing to see the direct result in my body instead of being like, okay, I’m having this issue, I don’t really know the cause, but there’s an option to like take this pill in order to stop it. So I think that that’s very empowering, to be able to know that I can heal my own body. And I think that’s a very big part of the method. And I think that you definitely need guidance because there’s a lot of stuff, there’s a lot of stuff.

Lisa: Yeah. Well, and it’s interesting because it’s kind of like a double-edged sword, I guess you could say, because women do self-teach and learn and there’s a lot of resources out there. And one of the things that I have observed is, women who kind of air quotes self-teach and learn are often part of communities of women who chart, even if it’s in an informal way. So I do believe that women who are learning fertility awareness do need support, whether they’re actually going to a teacher or taking a class is one thing, whether they’re going to groups and that has its own challenges. But this is kind of a community kind of thing and you really benefit from the experience of other women who do it. And you also benefit by doing it because the more cycles that you chart, the more that you see and the deeper that your understanding of all these things is. And of course, at the very beginning of the journey, it feels like, whoa, because the learning curve is pretty steep. But literally like six months in, when you have approximately six charts, your knowledge and comfort is at a completely different place than it was when you first started. So with that in mind, let’s jump in and let me know if you have any questions or anything that you wanted to go through today. We’ve had a couple sessions in the group and also, we’re having our in-person session, but we’ve had a couple sessions in the group already.

Grace: Yes. So I just wanted to ask you about, because I know we’ve talked about this, like the cervical mucus, because I have it all the time. And I just wanted to ask you the possible reasons, if it were not to be something that is just normal in my cycle, what could be the possible causes of that? I know that you told me to get tested for, you know, bacterial infection, STI, and have the regular pap the next time I go to the gyno, which is this month, so I will be doing that. But I wanted to, because I know that also in our last session, or maybe the session before, we talked a little bit about inflammation, I think, and gut health, and how that also could contribute to excess mucus. So I just wanted to kind of ask you, what are some possible causes if it wasn’t to be like a normal thing happening in my body?

Lisa: Yeah, no, that’s a really good question. And it can be one of the challenges with charting, because you can see what falls into normal parameters and what can’t, but your body doesn’t talk to you in words. So it’s not like you get a printout and it tells you, you have these, you know, check this thing or check that thing. So in your cycle, I have your chart up here. So for all the listeners, basically what we’re seeing is a pattern of what we would call continuous mucus. And so what this looks like is that, you know, after your period, you’re seeing like the creamy mucus. And then when you enter into your fertile window, you’re seeing like actual, you know, peak, so the egg white quality cervical fluid for a couple of days leading up to ovulation. And then once you ovulate, then we’re seeing creamy mucus. So basically almost every day, there’s something happening. So I mean, there’s several possible reasons, some that we’ve talked about. So, you know, depending on what you’re seeing now, your mucus, you’ve just marked it as like cloudy white. And so for women who are seeing more of a yellowish tinge sometimes or mucus that’s a little bit gummy, that can be a sign of cervical inflammation or infection. I think that when you’re seeing a pattern like this, it’s just a good port of call just to check it out. So that’s why I suggested the next time you’re in your doctor’s office, just say the magical words concerning discharge and then have them check and check all the things. So check for abnormal cervical cells. Ask them to do a pap. But a pap is not a test for like a bacterial or yeast screen, nor is it an STI screen. So you kind of have to ask for those things separately just to make sure that they’re done. So we can’t assume that just because they do a pap they’re doing an STI screen. So it’s not to say that I think there’s anything there, but this is literally just like a good idea to rule that out. So certainly continuous mucus can be a result of yeast and things like that. And not all times that you have yeast, do you actually feel itchy and all that kind of stuff. And that would be the reason why to check it out. Okay. So that’s just kind of like one possibility. So certainly I’ve seen patterns of irregular mucus or consistent mucus in clients who have got issues. So whether that’s something like IBS where, you know, you obviously have issues with digestion and your bowel movements aren’t consistent, those types of things. So that’s something that it’s not always the thing, but that’s because you said, you know, what are some of the possible reasons? Gut infections, things like that, underlying things. Sometimes you would know and sometimes you wouldn’t know. So it just kind of depends on, you know, what your symptoms are, but I know we’ve spoken about some of these things and you don’t really have concerns in that area. So we’re not really looking at that. But since you asked, what are some of the possible reasons? Yeah, particularly if you do have some sensitivities, you know, I think some of the most common are gluten, dairy, soy, you know, those types of things. And so for women who do have those types of sensitivities, if they’re exposing themselves to the thing that they’re sensitive to, it can certainly contribute to inflammation in different ways. And that spills over into cervical fluid. So that’s something to be aware of. And certainly when you’re seeing the consistent production of mucus, it could be related to estrogen levels, because estrogen is what triggers our mucus production. And so that could tell us something about your estrogen levels or about your liver function, if you’re not necessarily clearing it. So particularly in the post-ovulatory phase, when the progesterone should be high enough to kind of stamp it out. So to answer your question kind of in that general sense of like, what are some of the possible reasons? There’s several things that could contribute to it. And so my approach is typically rule things out as we go and see what, if anything, improves. And with the cycle, when you’re using the cycle as a vital sign, then essentially, what you’re doing is looking for those real-time shifts. So if you are trying a few different things and make some changes but nothing shifts, then you know that you haven’t really hit the nail on the head yet. And the other thing that I’ll say is that in the course of the program, so the chart that I’m looking at right now, I mean, that’s our first chart together. And so the other thing is that I don’t love to jump to conclusions. We’ve talked about this so it sounds like for you this has been a consistent thing.

Grace: Yeah, but it’s helpful from that perspective to actually chart a couple charts so that you can make sure that it’s a pattern and that kind of rules it out because sometimes you can have a random thing that can give you a certain pattern or something that can shift.

Lisa: So anyways, I think you see what I mean, just like it’s helpful to have a couple of charts so that we can really establish like is this really a pattern. Is it the same all the time? Does it ever fluctuate or change? And if so, why? All of those things can give us an insight as to what most likely could be contributing to it. Right. But we’ve talked about a few of these things. So none of those things kind of resonate with you that I remember.

Grace: No, I mean, not really. I’m very interested to have to be tested for all these things the next time I go to the doctor just because I don’t know, there’s a possibility that there could be an underlying yeast thing. So I’m very curious to see about that. And then, like you said, if that, I’m going to explore, because if I rule that out, then I can move on to the next thing and see what happens.

Lisa: Yeah. Well, because it’s so, I mean, it’s so tempting, especially for all the listeners to the podcast, because we talk about so many different aspects of it. And we’ve talked about this in the group a little bit. Sometimes it’s really tempting to make it so complicated, right? Like it’s got to be an infection that no one’s ever heard of before. I need to get like 16 rounds of gut testing. And then you get your swab done and it’s yeast. So that’s why I think that it’s important to kind of start at that foundational. And this is, you know, you’ve been through it all, you know, this is why I talk a lot about the basics. I always take it back to the basics. Like, are you eating? Are you sleeping? Because sometimes when you take care of that, some of these issues go away. And this also helps you to understand if it’s something that is kind of lifestyle related or something like that versus a systemic issue. And that’s why having several charts is helpful. Of course, when you start charting, the first chart feels like the be-all and end-all ’cause it is literally, ’cause you only have one. But then once you chart, you know, three, four, five, six cycles, you can start to see, oh, this is actually because I was super stressed and I didn’t get enough sleep at this time versus, oh my gosh, I think I have a thyroid disorder. Baby steps, we got to check out the basics first. So something that I’m not sure I think we talked about it.

Grace: Yeah, we did. We talked about the temperatures on the chart because your post-ovulatory temperatures are kind of, some of them are kind of in the pre-ovulatory range. I’m not sure because now you’ve started another chart. That’s something I would keep watching. And it’s interesting because this chart, I mean, I’m in my pre-ovulatory phase and my temperatures are, they’re on the lower end, but they’re like 36.3, 36.4, 36.5. I’ve had those three consistently in the pre-ov.

Lisa: Yeah, in the pre-ov. So that’s like way, that’s well improved, because in this cycle, the pre-ov temperatures where the post-ov temperatures were kind of like that. Yeah. Well, and so has anything changed? Anything?

Grace: Well, actually, so I actually have relocated. So I’m living in Argentina, but now I’m in the States. I came home for the holidays. I have been less stressed, it’s been like, I’ve been relaxing a little bit more. So it could be that, I mean, other than that, I know that’s a big change to come countries and whatever. But other than that, I haven’t really changed any specific thing. So I’m only thinking that maybe it really was like stress. And of course, this is again just one cycle. So then maybe the next one I can even compare with that. So we’ll see.

Lisa: But, well, all I can say is with charting, again, there is no like, definitely it’s, that’s not how this works. But what I find to be interesting from my seat is that, and you, I’m sure, saw a few examples of this in our time together, where there’s some pretty significant shift on the chart. And then, you know, me, I’m always asking all these questions. So I’m asking, okay, so did anything change? And, well, you know, I switched jobs. And it’s just like we don’t even think about these giant changes that we make. And then it just happens to correlate to it. So I can never say yes, definitely. But what I can say is, often when we see certain shifts in the cycle that are significant enough for us to notice, and they just happen to coincide with some of these changes that we may or may not think are significant, all you can do is exactly what you said. You know, the next cycle you chart and pay attention, and this is part of, I suppose, why it’s helpful to have someone like me in the corner because I have a different view of it. You know, I totally get it. I get that the chart is like the be-all and end-all, but I have this higher level view of like, I want to see six of them. My favorite thing is I have like six to 10 charts that a few of my clients I’ve certainly worked with over like a couple of years. And it’s very, very interesting. And that is when you really get to see what is the difference between your pattern and your baseline versus what happens when there’s a stressful situation or if you have some sort of health concern that kind of comes and goes. So really, from that broader perspective of like the implications of charting and all of those things that we talked about at the very beginning, body literacy and like kind of what drew you to this. So by that point, you have the rules down, you understand the possibilities of charting for birth control. So you kind of have those kind of things organized once you have that experience, but then you start to see this broader picture of like, okay, I can see what’s normal for me because most of the time my cycles are like this. And then when I do things like move countries and switch jobs and change relationships, then oh, I see that this changed or that changed. And that’s really how we get into that interplay relationship with our cycles.

Grace: Right, yeah, and exactly like what you were saying before, this chart that we’re looking at now with all of those low temperatures, I was like, oh my God, like I have a thyroid problem, I have to get tested, but also even with those underlying thoughts being in the course, listening to you, be like, maybe you should stop drinking coffee every morning. Or you can have breakfast. I’ve always taken on everyone’s coffee. I’m not like anti-coffee for all the coffee lovers, but I’ll just say…

Lisa: I’m sorry to interrupt, I’m just going to say for the listeners, but the only comment I want to say about coffee, and then I’ll let you continue, is that when you drink coffee in the morning, coffee is an appetite suppressant and many of us don’t even realize that coffee replaces your breakfast. And so it’s not even really a hit about coffee directly. It’s kind of like the indirect not eating breakfast that occurs on every day that then affects your chart. Okay, back to you.

Grace: No, no, that’s exactly what I’m referring to. Just like these small changes, like looking into your sleep patterns and your breakfast eating and your meals, are you having consistent meals? Looking at those first, to say like, yes, it is confirmed that low temperatures sometimes have to do with a thyroid problem. But first, let’s check out all of these things to see if changing any of them raises the temperature. So having that also, instead of like maybe being on your own and seeing like, oh, I have really low temperatures, I need to take 16 supplements, I have to go on thyroid medication, I need to get 16 blood draws, and maybe what you need is to eat breakfast.

Lisa: Exactly, exactly. And you might not know that. It might not be easily found that low temperatures could have to do with eating breakfast. Instead, it’s like thyroid. Yeah. Well, I think that that comes with experience. And, you know, of course, that’s a benefit of finding that kind of specialized support. And so that’s something that I talk about more and more. And it’s ironic and interesting, because I think I said this yesterday in our call. But yeah, one of the most frequent questions that I get in my DMs and in my messages, it’s like, I live in Slovakia and do you know any practitioners that you can recommend, and the answer is pretty much always no because I don’t have a Rolodex of all the places in the world. But I think that what we often don’t remember, so I think this way because I’ve interviewed so many people over the years and many of us have incredible practitioners of different modalities right in our backyards. We don’t necessarily think about looking for that naturopath that specializes in female hormones and fertility or the acupuncturist that specializes in menstrual cycle health or the functional medicine doctor that specializes in gut dysbiosis, etc. And so we don’t really think about that. But I guess my point is just that it’s helpful to have some support when you’re dealing with challenges that you’re not sure of. Because as you can tell from my messaging, what I’ve obviously learned over the years of the work that I do is that it’s not beneficial to jump to conclusions. And this is my perspective, this is kind of like that higher level perspective of like, we can’t look at one chart and just be like, everything is wrong and you’re a mess. Nope. We have to look at that one chart and think and recognize that we’re living beings. Obviously, we’re recording this in 2020 and I’m sure I’ve made reference many times here and there, but like this year is not the best year for calm and gentleness, right? It’s just not. So we have to kind of look at the situation and the context, and a lot of us, this is one of the reasons why I love charting so much and why I have an interesting framework, because I literally see the world through menstrual cycle charts. But we often just minimize what we go through. We don’t even think of it. And maybe it’s because we’re socialized to be caretakers, caregivers to everybody but ourselves. And so we don’t even think about the stress of, so let’s say your sister gets married or something and you’re in her wedding, like you don’t think about that as a possible stressor. Meanwhile, you were up three nights because she had some random requests that you needed to do, whatever, and then you’re like, why is my chart so messed up? Maybe you don’t have PCOS, like from the one chart that you’ve charted, where I’m not minimizing it either. But I guess the point is to say that when you do have an underlying condition, like when you actually have a health challenge that needs to be addressed, it’s not going to be one cycle that’s off. It’s going to be a consistent pattern. And so hopefully that is what I imparted to everybody in our class, which is that we don’t want to jump to conclusions based on the one chart. The one chart can be compelling, but if you really want to know like, do I have this problem, do I need to get testing is never a bad thing. I wouldn’t say don’t test. But what I’m saying is don’t jump to conclusions. And if there is a problem, it’s going to stay there, it’s going to stick in your chart and you’re going to see it and see it until it’s addressed.

Grace: Yeah, yeah, that’s very reassuring and good to know.

Lisa: Absolutely. Well, did you have any other, I know we covered a lot of things, one of the things that we talked about in one of our recent hot seats was how to manage, because even though you’re seeing this consistent pattern of mucus in your case, for whatever reason, it is very consistent, at least in this one chart. So I would still, of course, my nerdy brain would love to see several, but in this particular chart, it’s a very clear pattern where you have the continuous mucus, and then you have a shift in the window, in your fertile window, to clear stretchy. So you have like the creamy, the clear stretchy, and then the creamy. So in that respect, even though it’s a challenge to have some degree of cervical mucus every day and it falls outside of the normal range, for charting purposes, for birth control, conception, for the rules, we can work with that actually, because we talked about the strategies to doing that. Um, yeah, so did you have any other kind of questions or comments about any of the things?

Grace: I don’t think so. I think that again, I’m working on this new chart and continuing to gather my data, my lifelong data.

Lisa: Yes, yes, I love it. And you’re, I’m not going to say your age, but you’re in your 20s, and one of the things that I love about that is that when you’re in your 20s and you have the opportunity to discover this and start charting, you basically have your reproductive future. So your objective, I shouldn’t say what your objective was, but your objective was not to conceive right away. So that much I know. And so this gives you an opportunity to sort a lot of this stuff out and just get familiar with everything without the pressure. And so of course, it’s a nice, unique experience and opportunity when you have the ability to do that.

Grace: Yeah, absolutely. I feel very thankful to have found this at my age, exactly what you said.

Lisa: Yeah, for sure. Well, so as we wrap up today, a couple of questions I like to ask. So for the women who are listening who have maybe just discovered the podcast and are getting their mind blown with all the knowledge about the birth control, because I hear that a lot as well, like I just had no idea that it could affect people and those types of things. So someone is kind of in that contemplation phase of this, fertility awareness stuff sounds interesting, maybe I should come off the birth control, but I’m really scared to do that, what would you want them to know?

Grace: I think that I would say that I know that when I was listening to the podcast and just getting into the information, I did feel a little bit overwhelmed with trying to do it on my own. So I did kind of try, but then I was like, I don’t know what I’m doing, I’m going to stop. And there is just so much information, which is amazing. But I would say to just get some guidance, you know, sign up for the course or look for someone to help you. If you’re interested in this, get some guidance because it does become a lot more manageable and clear when you have someone who is so well-versed in this area. So I would say don’t just write it off because taking the pill is what you’ve always done and this is too much, it’s too complicated, you don’t want to be, you know, wiping every day to look at your mucus, even though you do wipe every day already. Yeah, even though you already do it, it’s just a matter of like lifting your arm a little bit further to take a look, but get some guidance and continue your interest in this, because it could really open your eyes and open some new doors to a really cool world.

Lisa: Awesome. And one other question, you may have answered it, but for someone who’s like, you know, scared of relying on fertility awareness as their birth control and kind of making that mind shift, not being on something, what would you want them to know?

Grace: I think that it might be surprising how much confidence you gain when you actually see these things happening. So like, for sure, even for me as well, before starting charting it was like, okay, but like, you really can use this as, you know, contraceptives, without anything, like no foreign object going in, and so I was also questioning it until I started to chart and literally see these things, like I can see that I ovulated and it’s impossible to get pregnant after you’ve ovulated until your next cycle. So I think just like seeing things happening in your body gives you confidence. And of course, if you try this charting and you’re still not confident, maybe it takes a year of charting to literally see what’s happening in your body to become confident. And a year in a life is not so much time, and then you have this tool for the rest of your life. So I think doubting is totally okay and totally a given, especially in society, like when I’ve brought it up to my girlfriends and they’re like, “Yeah, well, that’s not effective.” And I’m like, “But, but, but…” And so for sure there’s, in my case and probably so many others, there’s a lot of doubt, but just try it, just try it out and see if your confidence changes, because in my case, it definitely did.

Lisa: Yeah, I think that’s great words of wisdom because when you were talking about how, like when you just do it and then you start to see it, it reminded me of when I started, which the book said that you have mucus as you approach ovulation and then it would go away and it said your temperature would rise, and so I was like, okay, and then I did it and then it happened, and then it kept happening. And so it wasn’t predictable in that my ovulation was always on the same day and all that, but it kept happening. And this is true science, this is true science in the sense of literally observing, recording, and all of that. So I appreciate you sharing your perspective. Grace, thank you so much for being here today. This was so much fun, and I’m so glad that we were able to share your experience as well with all the listeners.

Grace: Yeah, absolutely. Thank you so much for having me. This, you know, the course has been such an amazing experience with you and all the other women in it. And thank you for this opportunity to share my story a little bit, hopefully to inspire other women to follow this path.

Lisa: Awesome. Well, thanks again.

Grace: Thank you so much, Lisa.

Lisa: Thank you for listening. If you enjoyed today’s show, please share it with a friend. You’ll find the show notes page for today’s episode over at fertilityfriday.com/345. I hope that you enjoyed today’s episode with Grace. I obviously love talking about fertility awareness at any turn and any opportunity, and I particularly enjoy these Fertility Awareness Reality series because I think it’s just so important, it can’t be understated how important it is to just give an opportunity for women to share their stories and experiences. And for those of you who binge listen and go through the archives and kind of listen to a lot of these episodes at the same time, I’m sure that you can appreciate how rare it is. I mean, of course it’s getting more common now with lots of independent podcasts and lots of different voices out there on all the different social media channels, but it’s still rare to hear these intimate details of people’s lives, how they’re managing their birth control, what their thoughts and fears are around it. And as a culture, we don’t really have a space for it that’s kind of like a publicly accepted place of discourse for this type of thing. And so it’s really up to us to create those spaces. And I just really liked what we talked about in terms of, a lot of women just know that this is how they want to manage their fertility when they discover it, when they hear about it, it just resonates with them for whatever reason. I mean, sometimes it’s just this, the fact that we haven’t been told it is novel because it’s just like this whole world exists and it’s happening right under my nose and I had no idea. So I think for a lot of us it’s that kind of novelty of it, but really what it comes down to. So in the final class, we were talking about a few different things. And one of the topics that came up was just this idea, like, yes, there are complexities to charting your cycles. Of course, there are complexities with anything that you really focus on. But when it comes down to it, the actual act of charting and monitoring your cycles is fairly straightforward. I think the complexities come from the challenges that we experience just with regards to our cycles, and it’s much more common for women to be struggling with different hormonal challenges and issues, and it makes sense if we think about our toxic world and all the different exposures that we have that perhaps our grandmothers and great-grandmothers didn’t have. So it was probably much more common just to have a normal kind of run-of-the-mill cycle a couple hundred years ago, whereas now it’s a little bit more novel when you have just a completely textbook, very regular cycle with everything that falls into the parameters. I think that it’s interesting because the challenge could be the health aspects happening in the background that make the charting a little bit difficult, but that can make the initial learning curve of charting a little bit more challenging. But the actual concept of paying attention to your fertile signs, paying attention to when you have cervical fluid, paying attention to your temperatures and understanding when in your cycle you’re fertile or you’re not, at the very core level, it is very basic information. And so, especially in the classes and things like that, after you’ve gone through the learning curve and you see the patterns and you start to see, cycle after cycle, chart after chart, it’s not always exactly the same, but you start to see certain patterns and trends and it becomes a lot easier to understand. There comes a point where you just kind of look at all of this and you think to yourself, like, man, this is just not that complicated, why can’t we just be taught this? Like, why is this such a thing? Why was I so terrified of this? Why was I so terrified of making change? So hopefully this collection of episodes, the Fertility Awareness Reality series and the Pill Reality series, are opening up at least the conversation about this, because that’s really where my passion lies, because I can’t explain to you how many stories you’ve heard, many of them, because many of the stories that I’ve heard are of course showcased on the podcast, but many are not. So I’ve heard many, many more stories, private client conversations and private personal conversations from women of all ages and all races and all walks of life. But the common threads are all there. So anyways, that’s my little ramble for today. I do hope that you enjoyed today’s episode. And I hope that you have a wonderful weekend whenever you are tuning into the show. And of course, as always, until next time, be well and happy charting.