Talking to Your Partner About Charting (Episode 344)

Full Transcript: Episode 344

This is the Fertility Friday Podcast, episode number 344. Welcome to the Fertility Friday Podcast, your source for information about the Fertility Awareness Method and all things fertility. I’m your host, Lisa Hendrickson-Jack. I’m the author of the fifth vital sign and the fertility awareness mastery charting journal. I’m a certified fertility awareness educator and holistic reproductive health practitioner with nearly 20 years of experience teaching women to connect to their fifth vital sign through menstrual cycle charting, balancing hormonal health, and optimizing the menstrual cycle without hormones. I’m outspoken about hormonal birth control and its impact on fertility and overall health because you have the right to know how your body works and how artificial hormones disrupt that natural process.

I host live coaching programs to help you achieve optimal fertility and health because it’s important to have healthy menstrual cycles regardless of whether or not you want to have babies. I’m also a wife and mother of two beautiful boys. I know, I know, I’m a busy girl, but I managed to fit it all in. This podcast is designed to power you to take full control of your cycles, your fertility, and your overall health. And I’m so excited that you’re here with us today. All right, today I have a special, we can call it an anniversary edition of the podcast.

But for those of you who’ve been listening to the podcast for a really long time, like years, like five years, some of you may remember that in 2015, episode 57, my husband interviewed me. So in today’s show, I was talking about, you know, what I was going to talk about. And he was like, well, why don’t I just interview you again? And so I thought it’d be a good idea. So we decided to team up for an episode, give you a really interesting little peek into our lives.

And but more specifically give some practical information. So I thought it would be kind of fun to do the partners, the husband’s perspective, because for everyone who listens to the show every now and then, we do talk specifically about how to handle fertility awareness, especially if you’re in a relationship, if you’re in a new relationship, how you would have that conversation. If you have been in a relationship for a while and now you want to switch up your birth control, some of the challenges that can arise, particularly if your partner isn’t familiar with fertility awareness and doesn’t really trust it.

So I think that part of the episode will be really interesting given that I teach fertility awareness how it worked with my partner and myself. So welcome to the show, John. Thank you. Thank you. Thank you very much. Yeah. It’s funny because I had to kind of dial back like when did we actually do that episode together? I just looked it up. But yeah, it was actually five years ago five years ago. Wow It’s a long time and and during that five years. I Definitely have a different outlook in regards to your your movement in regards to vaginas and stuff like that Yeah, different compared to then compared to now completely different.

Yeah, because I don’t really focus on a lot of like, our lives that kind of like the back, the back end, the, the behind the stage, if you will. But I think that it would be fair for anyone to have wonder like, what’s it like to be like my partner, given that this is what I do. And what I often say is that, well, you know, more about the menstrual cycle, more than you ever wanted to, And more about all of this really female stuff than most women at this point really, of course, not the women who listen to this podcast, but I think you know what I mean.

So I just wanted to like, I’m going to ask you a couple of questions, but we can just kind of see how it goes. But the one question I want to ask you was thinking back. So we’ve been together for a long time, over a decade, more than that. How long have we been together? A long, long time. Well, so one of the, well, we think back to like when we first started dating. So one of the things that makes this different than some of the women who are listening when they’re trying to broach this topic with their partners is that I had already been charting for a really long time by the time we had even met.

So when we started our relationship, That conversation needed to be had pretty soon into the relationship. So what I always say is that I only ever had to kind of negotiate the terms of the fertility awareness and how to manage the fertile window. We only really had to negotiate it at the beginning of the relationship and it’s been that way ever since. Whereas for some women, they were using birth control or they were using different methods and then they have to, you know, transition. So dialing back all the way to when me first started dating.

What was it like for you to basically have this woman who just laid in on the table like, okay, so I’m not on birth control. I never will be. I do this charting my cycles thing. And what was that like for you? The first thing that came to mind was she wants to trap me. And then I was like she’s really smart, she knows her stuff. I’ve been, she’s been sharing with me the work that she’s done in the community in terms of women’s cycle and you spoke about the charting book that you created.

So I was okay with it, but then I was like, what kind of granola type of birth control is this. She’s just going to write in a book and all of a sudden we’re good to go. I couldn’t make sense of it. I couldn’t understand it. And then over the years, you started explaining more and more because I was curious. I was like, this thing is actually working. Well, obviously, I was like, I don’t know what kind of magic words she puts in because what I used to see you do is you used to just pull out a book, and then you see you calculating something, you write in a book, you close it back, and then you’re like, okay.

And I’m like, so that’s it, that’s how it works. But I never really analyzed the book or anything like that. Then years went by, and as I was hearing your conversations and you were talking about the book, and then when you were recreating some stuff, I was just like, okay, when you’re talking about the window and ovulation and different types of of stickiness and stuff. When you went into the mucus stuff, I just was not interested because anything with mucus, I think in your throat, cold, spit.

Yeah, no. And then I got a greater understanding as time went on and just as you were developing the book, that’s the point that really gave me the eureka moment of, wow, okay, I get it. That’s really cool because you were 100 % sure. you were just like 99%. If you follow this, you will not get pregnant. There is a window, there is certain tastes and stickiness and all this kind of stuff, and you had your science down packed. Well, this is really interesting because as much as we’ve talked about it, I never really asked you what your perspective was.

So that’s really interesting. I think that one of the things I’ve talked to with my clients is there’s different ways that this works as a couple. So in case you didn’t catch that, in our relationship, basically, this is from my perspective, so correct me if I’m wrong, but because I teach this stuff and because I know and understand it and I’m really confident, you basically trusted me. – Absolutely. – And so it’s interesting to hear you say, We were like, when do we have sex and write it down?

Cause that’s not, that’s not, that’s actually not how, like when I think about how that it has worked, like from a very practical sense. So I have always been charting. So I always know where I am in my cycle. Yes. And basically when we’re intimate, I just tell you like, do you want to, like if today is the day, if you want to make babies, I usually make a joke about it. – Yes, yes, absolutely. – And then if I’m not in my window, then I’ll say like we’re good to go.

And that’s basically how it works. So in our relationship, from my perspective, I think it’s so interesting that that’s how you look at it. Because basically in our relationship, because you basically trust me. So you’ve never really questioned me. – I had to, ’cause I had no idea about this. – But it’s really interesting because you must trust me a lot because you don’t even as much as I think you understand and you do now for sure. But I’ve never pulled out a book and actually like sat there and explained to you cervical fluid and this is really interesting actually this conversation.

So yeah, I think that that’s really, really interesting. So basically, and this is an interesting model because you basically trusted me. I basically tell you if today’s the day that we make babies or not. And we basically go on my lead. You are not looking at my charts and interpreting them. It’s you don’t even pay. And I’m not I I’m completely fine with it. But just just for everyone who’s listening who’s curious. So there’s no like him looking at my charts and like looking at what’s going on or me explaining in a lot of detail.

It’s literally like me saying like green light or red light basically, that’s that’s it. And so he’s pretty much hands off. And it makes sense if you think about it since I teach it since I’m so deep into it, like, just with regards to your personality. But at the end of the day, and my personality too, at the end of the day, like that’s kind of a window into like one way that this can look for people. And I recognize that it certainly doesn’t look this way for everybody.

So then the question, and obviously we’ve been together for over a decade, I, like, this is bad, right, that I can’t just roll it off the tongue, like 12 years? I don’t know. But this is that bad. But anyways, we’ve been together for a really long time, and it’s worked. I’ve, I’ve actually made the comment, like, because we’ve, this is too much information, but I think I, I did do an episode a couple 100 ago or something where I said like things that I’m planning to do in preparation for pregnancy.

So I’ll just say like we’ve been having conversation for several years about whether or not to have baby number three and I’ve been known to say like there’s no mistakes in our house. We both know too much and At this point, you know when I’m in my fertile window as well So even though we haven’t had like detailed conversations about me conversations about Mika’s networks, you know, so I couldn’t even like I wouldn’t I wouldn’t never do that, but I couldn’t even like Because before I would say anything you would already know.

Yes So I’ve been known to say like man I wish we could like it’s hard sometimes it’s hard, you know When you want to have another baby, but it’s like never the right time and like if you Just like if we accidentally got pregnant, then there’s no accidents because we both know too much. Yeah. We know. We could pretend. Yeah, but we don’t. No. Yeah. We know too much. So anyways, I hope that this is helpful to everyone who’s listening because the one thing I’ll say as well is that it doesn’t have to look like this.

So I certainly have had clients whose partners are very involved who will read the book so that they understand and that will actually look at the chart. So a question for you then, is it just a personality thing? Like, so let me give you a scenario. I’ve spoken to many clients whose partners are really really skeptical. Yes, and don’t understand the science, but also like are just not even willing to like like just really really skeptical that there could possibly be a period of your cycle where you couldn’t get pregnant.

And when you hear the general process of it, it just doesn’t connect because as myself just being, we’re accustomed just to hearing either pill or condom. I never heard that method ever. I just never, never. From working in a community setting for years, working around health practitioners, working around a lot of women, I just never heard that method before. I didn’t hear it. When you were the first one to mention it ever. So when I heard this, I was just like, I didn’t even know that’s possible.

And you have three sisters. And I don’t even think they’ve heard of it before either prior to when you brought it up. And yeah, I found it really interesting. And I just, and also I knew that you’re just a person that likes to, to research the heck out of everything. So I’m like, what is the probabilities that she’s wrong? She’s, you’re a researcher. So from that, that allowed me to kind of, to be more comfortable with the decision. But it was interesting to me because I was like, there is actually another method out there.

And we don’t have to use condoms. That’s a plus, ’cause I didn’t like them. So, hey. – Well, so I think that that like, so for someone who is trying to like have this conversation with their partner, I mean, there’s no direct insight that anyone can give in every situation, but it sounds like the things that made you more comfortable were kind of knowing me and my personality, knowing, I mean, I had made a book about it, I taught people. So I think it’s a little bit different in that respect, because there’s no like, I don’t think she knows her stuff.

Like, I, if you want, I could stand up and give you a three hour presentation. That’s like the last thing you would ever want to do in life. What I usually suggest to my clients and to women who are thinking about, especially when you have already. I feel like it’s different when you’re starting a relationship and you can kind of start that relationship with these conversations because basically from the start then we had to figure out how we were going to manage it because there’s obviously periods of time when I can get pregnant and so we had to have those conversations basically right off the bat.

But I think it’s more challenging when you have already several years of interacting with each other in a certain way and then having to renegotiate the terms basically. And so it sounds like some of the things that were helpful for you is kind of like knowing like she knows what she’s talking about. But I’m just having that to great trust. But for many of my clients, that’s not enough. And maybe one of the things I suggest is the first before you try to convince your partner, you have to take the time to really know it yourself.

So that when you’re trying to explain it to your partner, because what you said, you’ve never heard of it. Most people have it. No. Yeah, most men haven’t necessarily, I mean, there’s no, there’s no 100 % because certainly I’ve had clients who literally told me that their male partners were the ones that told them about this method. Really? Yeah. So, so there’s, you know, obviously, that’s an exception to the rule. But I don’t know, do you have any advice for, for any suggestions for women who find themselves in that position and like, their partners, like, I don’t know what she’s talking about.

I don’t think this is going to work. And what you said, I, is she trying to trap me meeting? Is she trying to just get me pregnant, like get pregnant and all that kind of stuff? I mean, because I’m sure there’s intentions like that out there too, right? Absolutely. I’m sure. But I think it’s a person to person scenario. And it’s all about the comfort and the openness, the conversation that two people need to have and and talk about the just in case also say we’re gonna use this method but if there is a probability that if the method does fail if if it didn’t by mistakenly I judged things wrong I wasn’t when I when I went to sample stickiness I never want to use mucus if we want to to sample stickiness, and I thought so.

I thought it was a dry day, but whatever. And you just read it wrong, and you went head you had, you connected with each other, and then all of a sudden there was a child. That’s a discussion that needs to be held because you wanna be careful by saying, this is 100%, this is always gonna work. I know what I’m doing. And just in case there is that room for air because men are about very like concrete stuff. You said it’s going to work. You said it’s work.

It didn’t work. And it happens. And there could be times where it’s been working, working, working. And then that magical month, it didn’t work. Right. So it’s to be mindful that the conversation you have to have with your partner is very open, very transparent. Not to say that condoms and the pill and the stuff, there’s times where it doesn’t work also, that happens too. Everything has its flaws, but I believe it’s about the conversation and openness and where you’re at, where you’re at in life, ’cause with you and I, even if there was any type of mistake in our system, we would have been okay.

We would have been like, oh, all right, cool, high five. And we would have carried on with our wake is, you know, with as a will as a way. But, um, yeah. Yeah. No, that I think that’s really important. And one of the things I often say is that when you’re using the pill or condoms or an ID or, you know, any of these other methods, that conversation still needs to happen. Because there, there are no methods that are 100%. And I think most people, I mean, I know people who have gotten pregnant using all, I mean, obviously I do the podcast so I aired a lot of interviews as well, but I at this point other than the implant I’m pretty sure that I’ve heard of at least, you know heard of stories where people have conceived Using the IUD.

Yes using the pill using condoms using withdrawal So I think that’s important, of course and but then okay So I think you said a couple things are really important You said, you know men like for things to be concrete. Obviously, you’re skeptical of something you’ve never heard before, particularly if you’re not like if your partner is also just learning if she’s just learning, then it’s hard to be fully confident if she’s not fully aware yet. So for the men who are so we were in a situation where you like you said like, accidents don’t happen on our house.

But if it did, then it wouldn’t be the end of the world. But for someone for whom it would be the end of the world. And it’s absolutely like, no, we’re not. Because everyone’s at different points in their life, relationships are different. So for that person whose partner is like, absolutely not like, what if anything, would she say that to that person? That’s a good question. Because I mean, we have like, in our experience, 12 years strong and like, no, not even the slightest sliver slightest sliver of a mistake because we’re both on top of it and that’s just how it is.

So it’s possible that it can work for people. This is the premise of my entire business. When you know what you’re doing, when your partner is on board and when you take the time to learn and understand your cycle and you’re not gray with things, you’re black and white and you’re very specific with how you approach your fertile window, Then it is possible for this to be a highly successful method as effective as the pill But yeah, but I can sense your Yeah, I feel that well as you’re saying for for both the couples who are on board cool If there is mistakes, that’s fine for those who are not okay with that and if there is a mistake to be reminded that it is a method there are methods And with that being said, to do your diligence, to do your best to make sure that you are applying the method correctly.

That’s key, right? And that’s key for me, that we’re doing it correctly, we’re doing it right. I’m like that with everything, like, are we doing this right? Hold on, wait a second, let me take a look. Instead of just jumping in and they’re like, yeah, yeah, it’s fine, fine, whatever. So to be comfortable, for both people to be comfortable, to say, okay, we’re doing this method, we’re doing it right. And if there is a chance, as we said, if there is something wrong, you have to come up with a contingency plan.

Contingency, you know what I mean? Like there needs to be a plan around the plan ’cause you never know, you just don’t know, right? And then you have, and then with that plan, if the plan is to not move forward with whatever happens, then having a plan around the healing, because there is a part of healing that comes with that too. Yeah, right? Yeah, I think, I mean, I feel like that is, is, it makes perfect sense. And I would, I would say that just, you know, based on what we’re talking about here, this is why I always say everyone’s relationship is different.

So I’ve had clients whose partners are very involved, whose partners read the book, whose partners will interpret the charts. I’ve had clients who will put their charts up, you know, whether it’s in their bedroom, in their closet, their partners understand, you know, the green dots, dry days, like, depending on the charting system, but of course, you know, I teach, I teach a certain charting system, right? So, but, so I’ve had clients whose partners are much more involved. And that because I think one of the challenges is that for me, I’m cool with taking responsibility for my part in it.

So I’m cool with doing the charting and being the one that tells you when I’m fertile or not, and basically just like doing that and that being my thing. And I know for some women, it feels a bit ominous to have to be responsible and to kind of feel like it’s all up to you. And so depending on your relationship, depending on your partner, I mean, I have some clients who they take their temperature in the morning and their partner will like write down the temperature in their chart or put it in the app or something like that.

So I would say if your partner is super, super uncomfortable with it, the suggestion I usually give is that because I’m, you know, I, you work with clients like my partner’s an engineer. And so he’s really like skeptical. He’s super science minded. So in that case, it’s It’s like, well, then have him read the information. Consider taking a class, because I’ve also had clients who they’ll take the class. And it’s like, I’m sending them all this material. I send goodies in the mail to everyone who signs up for the class.

And we have multiple sessions over extended periods of time. And oh, you’re meeting again? So I think for a lot of people, especially when I haven’t heard of it. It’s like, what is this thing that she’s doing? But when you actually see what goes into it, what goes into learning, taking the time, understanding, taking it seriously, I think, and also understanding the science behind all that, I feel like depending on your partner and your relationship, that could be helpful. In your case though, you had no interest in reading the books about it.

– No, ’cause when you think about contraception, in my mindset, it was about something that you apply, right? So you, I apply, I put on a condom. You either take a pill or get injected by something or something is inserted to stop. So these things are, they apply, right? But then when you say that, I am just going to write in my book and whatever I write in here, it’s going to tell me that It was, it was a little, it took some time to digest cause it’s like, how does that work?

But then as we know, like the body is miraculous, man. It does, it does some things that, um, that, that we, it’s beyond our knowledge and like, how, how does the body do this? How does it repair itself? How does it reproduce? And, um, when you explain the science behind it and the research behind it, I was like, okay, all right. All right. I can’t argue with the research. I’m not a researcher. I can’t argue with it. I’m sure the people who did that know what they’re doing.

So, yeah, so I followed the lead and I’m not going to say I was not nervous the first time we actually tried it. Like, to be honest, after we did connect and then, you know, you’re like, yeah, see, you know, we’re completely fine. I started thinking Kind of foolishness She thinks we’re fine watch so I sat my arms full in for a couple a couple weeks like just watch She’s gonna come to me guess what and then and then time went by and I was like Really and then you’re like see Pregnant, I’m like it works I was like, Okay, okay, and then you think it’s luck The first time around you think it’s luck for me.

It’s like well, we’re just lucky whatever and then try it again and Worked it and from that on it was just the continuous. It worked it worked. I was like wow this thing actually works Yeah, yeah, I’m on day Sixth of my cycle. So just had another period TMI. I mean, hey, it’s always TMI TMI on this podcast. And in our house as well. That’s really interesting though. See, this is funny. This is I always say this to my clients. I’m always like, it’s so when I have the opportunity to interview you, it’s so nice because I get to ask questions that I wouldn’t normally ask and I get to hear new insights.

And so this is kind of fun because we haven’t actually had this conversation. We’ve been together for all these years. So and I never thought to ask you how you felt the first time. So what’s interesting about that? Okay, so for many of my clients, for the first time that they, so they learn, they learn the method, they listen to the podcast, they get the books, they start reading, they start charting, they start playing with this whole concept. And the clients who work with me directly, I mean, they chart their cycles.

I always recommend waiting at least one full cycle when you’re working with an instructor or three cycles of full charting before you start having a protected sex if you’re working on your own, a minimum of three full cycles. But it’s interesting because in this case with you and I, I had already successfully used this method in previous relationships. So I already knew that it worked. And I had no apprehension because I already, I had already gone through that process myself. I never thought about that. I never thought about but that would have been like for you till this moment.

That’s so funny. – Yeah. – I had never thought about that. So then for, yeah, wow. And you didn’t tell me that you were nervous. – No, I was super. ‘Cause I made the assumption that I knew everything about vaginas, right? Because I came from one and then I married a person who had one. So then I had things under my belt like I thought I knew. But then eventually after this magic trick of the charting, I was like, I know nothing, nothing at all. Oh my gosh.

That’s really funny. That’s a really good point though. I’m glad that you shared that because for most of my clients, it’s not just their partner that’s nervous as well. It’s them Because for the majority, I guess I can safely say the majority, because some of my clients do come to me after charting for many years, but I would say the majority of my clients don’t have all the charting experience and don’t have all the confidence, which is obviously why they’re coming to work with me. And so if you think about it, I’m usually focused on the woman, my client and her apprehension, Because for her this is the first time that she’s used it I I talk about it a lot in the podcast the the terror and the fear when you first try fertility awareness for the first time That makes perfect sense Absolutely, and I had that experience as well because I did have a first time of using the method and of course like you’re really cool You understand the science you’re charting you see the temperature rise you see the Mika school way You have your dry days I tried it for a couple cycles before I started I started and you know, followed the instructions and but still the still the very first time is terrifying because you’ve never done it before and You’ve read all the science, but you’re still Trying to deprogram from learning that you get pregnant every day But one thing that I haven’t considered until you mentioned that was How how the men feel So you were basically it was like and roulette, you’re basically just like, well, she said it works.

So let’s see if it does. Yes. Yes. And then, yeah, what makes that unique in my case is that I had already, I had already experienced that. So it didn’t even occur to me until this very moment. So, wow. So I feel like you blew my mind there. So I guess what comes out of that is that, and now I will be more sensitive to the plight of the male partner who also, and I can understand your apprehension, especially thinking about it, because you didn’t read like, I didn’t believe it or not, ladies, I didn’t pull out the charting book.

And like, I mean, if he wanted to, I wouldn’t, we would have like, I don’t have a problem, but he is just our personalities and in our relationship and stuff like that. And so this literally was like you trusting me and trusting what I had told you. And so I can just imagine now the men who are totally, they’re not, maybe they’re not letting on, but feeling a bit nervous. – Yeah, ’cause it’s not until later on in our relationship years after when, at night when you flick on the light and you turn, “Oh yeah, I’m just gonna write something down.” I was like, “What is that?” And you’re like, “Uh, it’s my charting book.” I’m like, “Okay, all right, cool.” And you go, “Oh, do you want to see it?” And that’s when you pull it and you go, “Look, here’s my different colors.

This is how I mark off.” I’m looking at it and I’m like, “Really?” I’m like, “You write so small?” And you’re like, “Yeah, here’s this.” I put this in and you had a legend and you put all this stuff in and I was like, “Oh, okay, that’s your book.” And I was like, “Interesting.” ‘Cause all this time when I saw you take out a book, write stuff, and kind of put away, I thought you’re documenting me. [LAUGHTER] So I was like, maybe she’s researching me. I was like, no, she’s looking over.

Observing male specimens, and then she puts it away. But no, it was interesting when I saw the book. I was like, wow, that’s really, really cool. Yeah. Well, so ladies, yeah, if your partner’s like totally hands off and doesn’t really take an interest in like, because the other thing too is that I had already gone through my phase of fertility where it is being so central in my life. And when I first learned it, I had met you after I had been using this method for years.

So it wasn’t a new thing. I wasn’t, you know, newly learning anything. It’s really interesting, actually, because apparently I didn’t really like fill your head with all kinds of stuff. Like I basically told him as much as He needed to know and wanted to know, followed his lead in terms of how much detail or how little detail he wanted. We kind of sorted it out and he basically trusted me and that was it. So for all of you who are kind of like, how could this work?

If you’re in that stage where this is something new for your relationship, I would say don’t be discouraged if your partner doesn’t really want to know. Of course, it’s a blessing when your partner, trust you and is willing to take your lead. I mean, for a lot of women, it’s a really big deal, especially for women who have had bad side effects or they have some concerns about their health. And so I find for the most part, men just want their women to be happy, of course, who isn’t thrilled about the possibility of having sex without a condom, if that’s, you know, depending on the relationship.

And also to have the opportunity to not be on contraceptive, especially if it has a detrimental effect on sex drive, like there’s a lot of potential benefits and positives. And so for the other thing I’ll say about, you know, if you’re trying to convince a male partner, that, you know, we’re not convinced, but if you’re trying to have this conversation to switch into a non-hormonal method, I think focusing on some of those benefits, like The positive effects on the libido if you are having some struggles or health challenges or questions or concerns We’ve talked a lot about on the podcast how it takes a bit of time for cycles to normalize post pill And so if you have a future, you know orientation with when you’re planning to try for a baby or something like that I think there’s a lot of really good reasons and points to consider switching but a balance of that and focusing on how to really Dive in learn the method, understand it so it can be effective, having those conversations, like you said.

And of course, having those conversations about how you’re going to manage your fertility, how you can do that successfully and what you would do in case anything happened, which I would argue that you should have had that conversation. Not the easiest, but yes. But my question to you though, so with me learning all this new vagina stuff over the years and still learning, have you been exposed to any research information, interviews, whatever it is, information that came your way that increased your ability to support your clients?

Well, I mean, certainly over the years, like, it’s interesting. I mean, if I think about it, so initially, when I was in my early 20s, I took a class and I started teaching women. And since then, I took another class and a continuation, essentially, of the first class. And so that certainly deepened my understanding to another level. I would say the podcast has been an incredible opportunity for me to speak to tons of professionals, as you know. And that has been a really interesting way to just learn a lot more about a variety of different topics.

Writing the book, well, you know, you were present. Writing the Fifidal Sign took two years. And there’s, yeah, the research that went into that certainly is very eye-opening. And of course, you know, my clients, working through all of the different situations that I’ve seen over the years, I have a pretty significant, you could say library of a variety of different situations that arise in the menstrual cycle just because of real life. And it’s like any practitioner who worth their salt, who’s been in the field for a long time, the more client work you do, the more situations that you see, the more trends that you see, and the better able, the better you are able to support your clients because you’ve seen it before.

So there’s certainly some specific trends that right? Come up quite a bit. I know I talk a lot about the pill. And one of I mean, a pretty decent percentage of my clients are coming off the pill. So some are coming off right away, you know, they literally come off the month of the class, the month that the class starts. Others have come off of it within, you know, six months, a year, two years or something like that. Certainly, there’s a small percentage of my clients who’ve never used the pill, but it’s is like a really, like, wow, how did you manage to never use the pill?

– (upbeat music) But yeah, I would say that those things primarily and continuing education opportunities as well. – Well, what’s interesting and not to delve too deep into the topic of the pill, ’cause I’m not an expert, but since I’ve worked around a large amount of females, I would hear them talk about things, and because I have sat and listened to your interviews and listened to you while you’re writing your book, things will pop in my head with things that you’ve said. So I’m hearing these conversations and then bing, I’m like, “Oh, oh, that’s what Lisa was talking about.” And then I’d say, “Hey, can I ask you a question?” They’re like, “Yeah, what?” You just said whatever.

Were you ever on the pill and have you ever felt like this and that they’re like how do you know this stuff I was like well you know I just I just know I was like no my wife this is her thing I go you know what check this out I would I would usually send you a text and I’d say Lisa what was that episode on whatever you’ll tell me and then I’d send it to them and they go over the episode, I’m like, yes, that’s it.

It was really cool. It worked up like majority of the time. – Yeah, we’ve had a couple of conversations like that where someone’s talking about something, it’s like, have you ever heard of PCOS and they’re like, what are you talking about? How do you know? And so, it’s like journeys of the husband of the fertility or adventures. – Maybe popular though. But is it popular with things that you want to know about? – No, no, but it started coming to me saying, so I have this, this, and that.

I’m like, oh, I didn’t really want to hear that, but based off of, hold on a second, like talk to you and then get the whichever episode, send it, they’re like, yes. So it was really cool. I thought it was cool. – Cool. Yeah, yeah, I get that question sometimes because I’m the, I mean, I don’t necessarily identify myself as the vagina girl, but in my vagina whisper, that’s what he calls me in case you were wondering. But in my personal life, because what’s interesting too, I think this also speaks to, so the podcast and my client work is really where I focus on all things, fertility awareness and menstrual cycle.

And in my personal life, what’s interesting is that when, like for example, when I came out with the book, there were a group of our pretty fairly close friends that had no idea that I was writing a book. And so to put it into perspective, like I talk about vaginas and menstrual cycle infertility, whereas all day long in my work, and for any of you who are listening to this episode, you would probably imagine that in my personal life, I’m just going on about it all the time.

And the opposite is actually true. – I mean, I don’t hide it. So if someone asks me what I do or if a topic comes up, sure, I’ll talk about it. But ironically, with our closest friends, like it doesn’t, like it only comes up if someone asks me a specific question ’cause they know what I do. – Yes, oh, that’s true. Like even one of my closest friends, he has a copy of your book and when I go over to his house, I went over to chill, listen to some Music just chill out, but then I look over and see the book there with notes in it Yes, and I’m just like, uh me picks up go.

Oh, yeah, um on this chapter It’s saying I’m like, why are you asking me questions about this? She wrote it I was like, I’ve been listening to this for like three years. No, put it down. This isn’t the music so it’s interesting because he has a book there, he’s going through it. And he’s interested. He’s interested. Yeah, yeah, well, he’s interested because he hasn’t had to hear it on like non stuff. So with so with the friends and things like that doesn’t come up a lot.

But with you, because you’re here and we’re, you know, so yeah, you, you are the one you were the one that hears about this stuff more than yourself. Yes. Yes. Well, with that, I mean, as we draw to close. I just want to thank you for coming on the show. We were just sitting there talking about this and I was telling you that I wanted to do a solo episode for 2020 because I always take a moment to think about how to… For anyone who doesn’t know, when this episode comes out, this is basically the sixth anniversary of the Fertility Friday podcast.

So congratulations. Thank you. So the first episode of this podcast I released about the it’s like the second last week of December in 2014. So now that it’s 2020, this is it literally marks six years. So some years I just do something special, but I usually do solo episode and I’ve done, you know, like a kind of like a lessons learned of the year or different topics. But when we were talking about it, and I was telling you, you kind of said, Well, why don’t we just do an episode together?

And I was like, Yes, why not? Oh, yeah, it’s been a while. And I hadn’t realized it had been five years, but and why not? Because we’re both home anyways, now. Well, there’s that. So yeah. And when I was thinking about doing the episode, I thought, Okay, maybe I could do some of my some of my takeaways from 2020. so yeah this year has been really interesting we had a lot of changes in our family yes I would say the biggest change is that we’re all home now all the time all the time so before this I mean I work from home obviously but I would go out a lot I went to the coffee shop I went to the library and that’s basically my my book was written in coffee shops yes and And I loved, right, past tense here, but I loved writing in coffee shops because I just like the, you know, the buzz, the bustle, hustle bustle, and you know, I put on my headphones and listen to music.

But so anyways, that was a big shift for me to always be at home. And then now we are homeschool parents. Yeah. So I’m pretty sure that neither you nor I ever had the dream to be homeschooling parents, but now we are. – Now we are. – We are, so we decided to make that decision for a variety of reasons, but it’s certainly been an adjustment. It’s been actually wonderful having the boys home. So we have two sons, age five and eight, and I’ve actually really enjoyed having them home, but being that I work a lot, you have been the one that has been doing doing a lot of the homeschooling, the parenting, the taking care of the children, whatnot.

– Yes, yes. I am fully domesticated, yes. (laughing) It’s awesome. – While also working, ’cause you also work. – Yeah, I also work. So yeah, trying to find that healthy balance and escape when I can escape. We do some hiking though. – Yeah, we do. – We definitely do some hiking. We actually have hiking shoes. – Yeah, – I know, thank you, you bought me some hiking boots, it was great. – So that’s been great to be able to connect to nature and to just connect on that level.

There’s something about that that allows people just to connect on a different level. And yeah, and try to be creative with our time. – Well, yeah, I feel like this year has been certainly a transition to the simple thing. So I feel like before all of these changes happened, there was a lot, I mean, we had the boys in all kinds of activities, we had all kinds of stuff going on, we were always busy, every day was another thing, there was always something going on. And I feel like one of, and it’s in a way like, I don’t know if it’s a positive change or a negative change, to be honest with you, but from the positive perspective, I think that it certainly has given me an appreciation of the simple things.

And so to think about, you know, going for hikes and being in nature, I love, I love nature. I love going out and doing those things. And so that’s something, but as well, we have a lot of board games and we’ve actually been doing a lot of like family time and playing games. I think because when you’re home all the time, you kind of have to think about creative ways to deal. And we don’t mean, you know, me, I’m not a fan of board games. I know, but you’ve been playing and I’ve been playing but you know, okay So just as a rather he doesn’t like playing board games, but then like we play checkers and he’s The best checker player and I can’t beat him and then we play I don’t remember what the other games were but it’s like he doesn’t like to play and so anyways I learned that the reason he doesn’t like to place because he spent his entire childhood playing So he’s the master of all of the games and I can’t beat him in anything – Something like that.

– Side note, side note. So another lesson I learned, I feel like that’s a, that’s a really interesting, I would say takeaway, just that I experienced of like, valuing the simple things this year. – Yes. – And also self-care. – 101. – Yeah, I’ve been talking about it a lot on social media because I just feel like this has been a year that’s been really stressful, a lot of changes. things are not back to normal, right? So it’s still just a lot of things have shifted.

I guess I don’t deal with change while I always, I thought I did, but I think I do. And so it really highlighted the importance of self care and so meaning like making sure getting enough sleep, making sure that you are eating enough food, making sure like it’s all the things I always talk about with my clients. Very true. Because now taking care of yourself Needs to be amended because it looks a little different. Yeah, because before taking care of yourself You you had the freedoms to do certain things and now that we’re falling into a little bit of a limitation That now you have to be a little bit more Creative to kind of recreate what taking care of yourself looks like Yeah, right even if for instance, we have the walking treadmill, right?

Yeah, that was an addition That’s an addition, we possibly wouldn’t have purchased something like that because we would go out do our things, whatever. But now that we’re home and we need to have a space where we can exercise and do our thing, this is a great addition. Well, yeah, one of the things that happened. So as I mentioned, I used to go to the coffee shop and whatever. And one of the things that happened was that because I was home all the time, I have a standing desk.

So I’m often, you know, standing, but there were a couple of really busy weeks where I was standing for like 11 hours, basically. And what I discovered is that standing puts a bit of pressure on your lower back. And so it wasn’t really an issue before because I wasn’t always at home working. And so I threw out my back. I have this horrible back spasm, and that was on the floor. And anyways, so then one of the things, since I’m home all the time, I decided, let me try this treadmill thing.

And so now I have a treadmill under my desk, and I can actually walk and write and work and you know do all the things I need to do. You know I mean everyone’s journey is different that’s just a little kind of behind the scenes stuff here but all this is to say that certainly with all of the changes that have happened we had to get more creative about how to do our exercise, how to you know do our self-care because everything just looks different and like you said a lot of the things that we relied on before we can’t really do but All in all, I mean this year has been I would say pretty terrible in a lot of ways, but in other ways I mean we are together all the time.

I feel like as a family. We’ve gotten closer We’ve had an opportunity to kind of enjoy Our time together in ways that we we just didn’t previously. So I would say that there are some Definitely some positives that came out of it. Yeah. Yeah. I would say so too. Traveling right across Canada. Oh yeah. That’s the thing. I don’t think I’ve mentioned that. I don’t know. That’s a journey. Yeah. So we live in Ontario, Canada, and we actually drove across the country this summer. We took it.

It takes 35 hours. For anyone who doesn’t know, Canada is really big, and it took 35 hours. So it took us like, was it over two days, I think? Two days. Yeah. So we went to visit family and friends and that was one of the highlights of the year. I think I might have, I don’t even remember if I mentioned it anywhere, but now, you know, if you didn’t hear it there, now you hear it here. So we had a, yeah, that was really nice. – That was great.

– Yeah. So it’s something the boys will always remember and we will obviously also remember. We decided to drive across the country to visit my family and it was really nice. Canada’s really beautiful, you know. It’s a really beautiful place. Yeah, it’s hard to understand the size and the space that we capacity that we have. Yeah, until you actually two days to drive across and then to to a motel hotel, we, yeah, hotel with an H. You, you said no motels. That was the role. All right.

Well, I feel like this has been a lot of fun. And I think this is probably a good place to stop. So we shared a little bit about the partner’s experience with fertility awareness, which I hope is helpful. I learned a few things because I hadn’t thought about, I just hadn’t thought about the male experience. It’s so funny because for all the talking I do about fertility awareness, we hadn’t talked about that. So I think that’s really fun. And yeah, just kind of some thoughts on the year.

So certainly a different style of podcast, but I hope that you all enjoyed it. This is how I’m, I suppose, celebrating my sixth year of podcasting. Honestly, when I first started the podcast, it’s kind of funny. Like I told, obviously, John, that I was like, okay, I’m going to start this podcast. And he went into the cupboard and he pulled out a mixer. So for anyone who doesn’t know what a mixer is, that’s actually what we’re using to record the podcast. You plug in the microphones to it and it has power, so it powers the microphones.

And then you can use that to kind of plug into all, you know, the recorder. So that’s what’s happening right now. But yes, the man pulled out a mixer out of the cupboard, because he just had it laying around. So all this is to say that you’ve always been incredibly supportive. And behind the scenes, you’ve always been there, you you helped me to set up my new setup. I did an a bit of an updated setup. But yeah, thank you. Thank you for always being so supportive of of everything I’ve done.

I don’t know that I would be have been able to do this without your support. It was kind of a an undertaking, really. Oh, you’re welcome. Why not? You’re welcome. And thanks for being on the podcast. I’m sure that at least some of my long-term listeners will really appreciate getting a little kind of behind-the-scenes peek and I’ll put up a nice picture of us, everyone can see what you look like, because I don’t think that’s ever happened. No, not at all. So this is my family, this is it.

So before we end anything, anything else you want to share? That yeah, this is a fantastic journey and I look forward to what’s yet to come. Thank you for listening. If you enjoyed today’s show, please share it with a friend. You’ll find the show notes page for today’s episode over at fertilityfriday.com /344. I hope that you enjoyed this today’s interview with John with the hubs. It was it was actually really fun recording it. I hadn’t even thought to do it so it was actually his idea kind of like a throwback to when we did it five years ago for the first anniversary edition of the podcast so if you haven’t heard that episode I’m sure it’ll be interesting and funny to listen to but episode 57 of the show.

So this was an interesting opportunity to kind of give a little, you know, backstage what it really looks like in our lives. And I think that it might come as a surprise that my husband doesn’t necessarily know all the things and isn’t necessarily like completely well versed and couldn’t give a presentation on cervical fluid. But it makes sense. I mean, if you are a veterinarian and your husband has a different job, then it makes sense that he wouldn’t be able to do veterinarian things, right? And so it’s interesting though in our conversations to see how in some ways this just falls to the wayside because, you know, we negotiated it at the beginning, I talked to him about it and obviously answered as many questions as he had and so he was satisfied and content to trust my ability to chart my cycles and to identify when and he saw that it was working, I think that the most eye-opening aspect of the call for me was to hear him talk about how nervous he was the first time because that’s something that I hadn’t really thought about.

So I feel like that’s something that I’ll now always remember and keep in the back of my mind. I’ve spent so many years supporting women to overcome their feelings of nervousness and anxiousness when it comes to gaining confidence and fertility awareness. I mean, that’s what I do in my programs. And that’s often, you know, what we’re talking about on the podcast, depending on the episode that you’re listening to. And so it was really eye-opening to hear his experience of basically the first time that we had unprotected sex on an infertility.

I didn’t even think about it because I had already been using fertility awareness for for years before I met him. Didn’t even occur to me, but it was a thing. But of course, for him, it was his first time. And if I think back to my very first time of using fertility awareness, I mean, I was satisfied with the science, but of course, it’s always a bit nerve wracking. And, but certainly after years and years of timing sex based on your cycle and then having your period come right on schedule over and over and over again, at some point you stop being nervous because you start to understand that this science stuff really works.

So that was really opening and I feel like that’s also really helpful, especially if you are navigating these waters with your partner, if you’re thinking about switching to fertility awareness and you’ve already started to have these conversations with your partner. I feel like it’s a really, really helpful and important reminder that we need to think about where they’re coming from and be sympathetic to their fears and their concerns. Yeah, I feel like it was really opening just that aspect of it. And a few other things that he talked about that I think were really important as well.

So one of the reasons he was comfortable with it was because of where we were in terms of our relationship. If pregnancy happened, it wouldn’t have been the end of, you know, that was kind of his frame of mind for me. I certainly, because I knew already that it worked. I certainly didn’t have a cavalier attitude about it. I certainly was not, you know, until we were ready to start trying after we got married and after we were ready and made that decision. So I certainly wasn’t thinking about, oh, if it doesn’t work, it’ll be okay.

I was definitely being just on top of it like I like I always am because I’m a planner and I, anyone who’s a planner as well, it’s kind of nodding your head ’cause you know what I mean. So that’s interesting to hear that difference because for him, he was like, well, if it doesn’t work, it’s okay. But for me, I didn’t think that way at all ’cause I already knew that it worked. But this is exactly the mindset I think and give some window into like what your partner could be thinking and his genuine fears about it.

And maybe that, those are some of the reasons why in cases where he’s a bit more resistant to it, like that can give some insight us to why. Because in his life experience, he hasn’t had the experience of having unprotected sex with a partner and not having the fear of that result in a pregnancy. So anyways, I feel like this was actually really eye-opening for myself, and I hope it’s eye-opening for you as well, to really think about that conversation with your partner and what it’s really like for them, and kind of also what it takes for them to become really comfortable and confident and so Having that knowledge and understanding is important And then once your partner actually sees that it works and understands it in the experiential aspect of it I think that’s really helpful as well and also that conversation about like what happens if something goes wrong Which I will always say Should always happen if you’re having sex with another human, even if you use condoms, even if you are on the pill, the conversation should always happen.

You know, what would happen if I was on the pill and I was taking it, but I got pregnant. You know, what would happen? So anyways, I will stop rambling on. I hope you have a wonderful holiday season. This episode is scheduled to come out on Christmas day. So if you celebrate Christmas and you’re listening to this episode on Christmas day, you know, Merry Christmas. And if you celebrate other holidays during this time, you know, happy holidays to you. I hope that you are able to spend this time with your family or your loved ones or those close to you.

And I hope that you’re able to enjoy, enjoy the season. So, sending you what, you know, my best wishes and love and myself, like, I think everyone on the planet is certainly wishing you a Happy new year as well. So, you know, in a week, it’ll be a new year. If you’re listening to this in real time, it’ll be 2021. And here’s to hoping 2021 will be an excellent year. Certainly better than 2020. So, so I’ve said it, I’ve gone down on the record saying it, you know, wishing for a much better 2021 than 2020.

And so with that, I will let you go Have a wonderful week weekend day whenever you are tuning in and of course as always until next time be well and happy charting