How Midwives Can Integrate Fertility Awareness Into Client Care | Ep. 599

Episode 599

Each fertility awareness to your clients and specialize in advanced menstrual chart
interpretation. Registration is officially open for our fertility awareness mastery
mentorship certification. Classes start in January of 26, and early bird registration
is open until November the 14th. Head over to fertility friday .com slash fam live
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This is the Fertility Friday podcast, episode number 599.
In today’s episode, we are diving into what it looks like to bring fertility
awareness into your midwifery practice from postpartum charting to educating clients
who prefer natural methods of birth control and even dispelling myths about the
rhythm method, we really cover it all. And this episode really brings some insight
into how our practitioners really incorporate our fertility awareness, training, and
strategies into their work with clients. So before we dive in, let me tell you a
little bit about our guest Kate Chantry. Kate is a wife, mother of two, licensed
midwife of 14 years, certified our Vigo Maya abdominal therapist and spinning babies
aware practitioner in rural southwest Wisconsin. Kate is the third oldest of nine
children, eight of whom were born at home, and the youngest, she witnessed being
born peacefully at home supported by midwives. This foundation of home birth midwifery
with the strong belief that we are fearfully and wonderfully made set a foundation
for Kate in wanting to support women during the childbearing years as a community
midwife and body worker. Kate loves learning and adding to her toolkit of how she
can support women and their families, especially in ways that restore trust in how
we are created to be. So without further ado, Let’s go ahead and jump into my
interview with Kate.
I’m excited to be here today with Kate. Welcome to the show. Thank you, Lisa.
Well, I always love these episodes, like a broken record over here. But I find them
fascinating because by this point, we have been together for quite a few months.
I’ve seen your face every week for how many months, like five, six? And since,
and a march. Yeah. So it’s been quite a while, but I always find that when we do
more of an interview style, that I learn more about your story. So that’s one of
the reasons why I always find it. So fun. And so I would love to start with my
favorite question, which is tell us a little bit about when you had your first
period. And I guess take us through to the work that you’re doing now and why
you’ve had more of a focus on the menstrual cycle and charting, especially being
midwife, what drew you to incorporate that into what you’re doing? Yeah. So I had
my first period when I was 13 and a half. And my mom was open about when she had
her period, but still when I first had mine, so it wasn’t it’s scary for me,
but I definitely still had more of the impression that it was a burden to have a
period and I couldn’t do certain amount of things and like be as active during that
time. And I feel like now looking back, it’s like I feel like some of the
restrictions that my mom laid out. It’s like I feel like those are still like good
things to think about, but it was more of like in a negative way. I feel like I’m
trying to re -spin it like in a positive way. So yeah. So 13 and a half.
I didn’t have any particular like to start off with. I remember my period being a
bit irregular at first, but learning this program, that’s kind of normal those first
couple of years. I feel like it took until around maybe 19,
so maybe a little bit longer to like actually get more regular because I remember I
was talking to.
more and I got my trade back.
Very wise. Yes, yeah.
Yeah. So that was kind of the early part of my menstrual cycle history. I didn’t
really have painful periods. Interestingly enough, those kind of came a bit later.
When I was 22, I started a midwifery school and became a midwife when I was 25
before I ever had And sometimes in mid -frey school, I started getting painful
periods, which was interesting. Yeah, Donoff was, like, more stressful,
eating differently than I’d eaten at home. I also started, like, working on a farm,
and I felt like some times that heavy lifting, potentially, like, especially if I
was having lifting before in that Ludio phase in my cycle, then it would always be
worse. But it was only for, like, a couple hours. but sometimes it would be super
intense than to be in the bath. I have grown up with my painful period, but I was
always fortunate. It only lasted like maybe four hours at the longest. So I don’t
know if that was a reflection of my burst because my bursts had been super fast
too. Well, the two that I’ve had. But with charting in Muba Free School is when I
first kind of got introduced to charting and taking charge of your fertility and
read that probably as part of my school, but did start charting at that time,
taking my temperature. But mucus was always harder for me to kind of chart
consistently with mucus. I felt like I had a couple different methods of charting
and wasn’t always the clearest for me. But this program has really helped to clarify
and make me understand, like, what the mucus is all about. So, yeah,
I became a midwife, and then I also, shortly after becoming a midwife, one of my
midwife mentors had was just doing with our Vigo mind abdominal therapy training,
and she really encouraged me to do it. She’s like, I don’t know how you can be a
midwife and not know this. So I also did that and so I’ve been a mind abdominal
practitioner for the last 12 years and the midwife for 14 years.
like taking charge of your fertility and encourage them to charge. But it would only
go so far as like what I would do with it after and that. And so I’ve been
trying to remember how I even heard about your book or your work. Yeah. But once I
started to learn more, it’s like I was hungry to keep on learning. Like I need
that. I want to know more. So I can apply this to my work. So yeah,
so I signed up and I had a break plan for this hour. It was kind of perfect
time. I don’t know how I would have, you know, just because of my own personal
structure, it’s like it was really perfect timing to start this program when I was
on break for Midwifery and not having to juggle that and family life. But back into
Midwifery right now, and so now I’m doing all three. Okay. I remember at the
beginning you were mentioning that you took a bit of a break because, of course,
midwifery, I remember looking at all these different career options. I think I was
in my 20s and I was like, brought them all down. And I really do love the idea
of being midwife, but I don’t know if I love the hours, right? It’s like, I don’t
know. I love the idea, but I don’t know if I’m the one to do the hours because
babies are obviously born at night a lot. Yes. Yeah. Our three
Not in the bittiness, but yeah, and then the next day, it’s like, oh, psh, I
guess.
Well, I mean, we’ve had a lot of midwives, and somehow they make it work. And I
know you’ve been super diligent. You’re on, I think, every call. I feel like I see
your face every week. So we’ll see if that keeps up.
Yeah, there’s always a couple like births because they happen when they happen. So I
wanted to ask you a few questions about your story. You did not mention hormonal
birth control. So if you didn’t ever take it, how did you manage to avoid it?
Yeah. Yeah. I have never used hormonal birth control. I mean, I grew up in a
family that was pretty alternative. But I don’t think I ever really should be
better. Alternative and conservative. So I never really even considered it. Yeah,
more of kind of grew up with, like, not having sex and tall marriage. So, yeah,
so again, like, didn’t even consider it. I grew up with a family of nine children,
but I did have a sexual partner before I did get married and used to withdrawing
condoms than I was charting during that time. Then I got married to my husband.
And I feel like before I got married to him, I kind of was going to talk from
sharding. And I fully meant to like start charting again because we had wanted to
wait about six months before having a child totally fell into the rhythm that then.
I’m not pregnant on my second cycle because I thought I knew when I was first.
So, yeah. Yeah. And then I ended up having like him that pregnancy.
I ended up giving birth early because I developed severe creaklamcia and gave birth
it when I was seven months pregnant. So after that experience, my husband was like,
not doing fertility work if that doesn’t work. So we did condoms and draw for like
two years right before we were, like, open to conceive and again. And then
conceived, that took more like six months that time to conceive. And, like, I knew
when I was fertile and when I wasn’t. So I was with knowing when I was fertile
and hitting those fertile windows. And then the after my daughter was born,
yeah, it was back to just condom, 100%. And I wanted to go back into charting,
but just like the life of a midwife, of a breastfeeding mothers. I just could never
get consistent charts. So now my daughter’s seven. And I took my break.
So it was a really good time to like set the ground of like that extra busyness.
But also doing this course too and going back on call and stuff like that I feel
like a lot more confident even when I do like have missed temperatures or things
like that, especially with understanding this or the mucas, which you’re just checking
when you go to the bathroom. It’s there. It’s there when you get sleep or not.
Yeah. You’re reminding me. I’m having like flashbacks of when we had our first
sessions or doing our hot seats and we were talking this through. So I’m remembering
when you were talking about how your husband was, we’re not doing that. And I feel
like that was one of your goals. Like your goal was to feel really confident about
it and like hopefully.
wasn’t consistent charting. So now that I have been consistent charting, and he can
see my charts, not that he inspects them. I think he did maybe like the first
time, but hasn’t necessarily then. Yeah, he’s definitely been on board. So that’s
been nice to finally get to this point. Well, it’s funny because I remember when
we’ll have to link the episode to this podcast, but years ago I interviewed my
husband on the podcast. I think that’s the one and only time he’s been on the
podcast. And so I just did not expect him to say what he did, though, because I
had already been charting. I was like teaching when we met, you know, like on a
grassroots level. And so for me, I probably didn’t provide him with like a full
explanation, apparently. Because when we were talking about it, he was kind of like,
yeah. So she was like saying I can just look at this chart and she won’t get
pregnant. And in his mind, he was like, yeah, so we’re engaged anyways. So if she
gets, and I was like, that’s what you thought.
Sometimes, I don’t know, it’d be interesting to hear, because that’s one thing I
don’t think I’ve done ever on the podcast because I’m working with the women. I’m
working with the women who are targeting. I’m never working with, I mean, partners
have been in sessions, but they’re not the client, right? So that would be super
interesting to, like, interview a bunch of partners and be like, what did you really
think about this? When your partner was like, so we’re going to do this charting
thing, and I’m going to come off the pill now. And well, he must trust me because,
yeah, he doesn’t want another child.
So we had sessions today before this call. I feel like in our sessions earlier, we
talked a lot about how the method actually works. And as long as you know how to
identify the fertile window and the science behind it and the specific strategies
behind it, it’s not luck. So hopefully, yes.
Well, and you mentioned, like, I just want to go to your story as well, because I
do feel like your experience is because you weren’t taking a hormonal contraceptive
to change your cycle or
But you mentioned that around 19, that’s when they kind of started regulating. And
what’s interesting about that is that your cycles were able to regulate. You were
able to learn a little bit about even the relationship between exercise and cycling,
even though it wasn’t in a structured way. But your cycles did actually normalize
without any type of significant input of hormones or medications or even like a
significant protocol. Did you want to speak to that a little? Because I think that
is an experience that not all women have. More of the experiences that I’ve heard
are women who had some cycle of regularities and then are immediately put on
something to force that into line. Yeah. Yeah. Well, I mean,
I think it really taught me it because I think my cousin with a nurse who said I
should eat more. Like I think it really taught me as like, oh, what we eat and
how we eat can affect our hormones. So, yeah, I think that was a really good
learning for me, as you said. It wasn’t like I read a book or I had thought
medical help because it was put on my birth control or whatever it’s regular life.
It’s just like so crazy for me. It’s like, why would you be put on birth control
to regulate your cycle when you’re actually not cycling? We’re just having these,
like, fake cycles, yeah, which I don’t know if I fully realized by either until
diving deeper in that, like, the so -called periods that people have when they are
on hormone birth control aren’t actually period. At least they’re not, like, avatatory
periods or post -avitory bleeds, yeah, which makes sense because it is suppressed in
ovulation. Yeah, it makes you wonder if Ruben was kind of taught that standard of
what the real cycle is and what the pill really does to the body. It makes you
wonder, at least makes me wonder, what it would be like because no one knows this.
Until people fall into the fertility wear and its rabbit hole, people don’t know
that’s what the pill is doing. And it’s interesting because I’m sure there’s at
least one person listening who, I don’t know, who’s just inspired by your
perspective, having been so far outside of the typical medical situation to even be
like, why would someone even do this? Whereas that’s what everyone usually does.
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So, I mean, one of the questions that I have for you, so now we’re fully in the
weeds, like we’re even past the weeds now with the cycle knowledge. You’ve been
immersed in the practicum stage of the program, so you’ve been applying this with
your clients and things like that. I’m really curious to hear how it’s been going.
Like when you said that you took your midwifery, you went to midwifery school and
then you did our Vigo and that was kind of what drew you into wanting to go
deeper into this. Maybe share a little bit about what it’s been like now that you
can actually take your clients through that process instead of just referring them.
Yeah. Yeah. So far the people that I’ve been working with this process have sought
me out mostly just for this, but some of them, or one in particular,
I’m doing the RV go work with two. And then there was another one who had
previously done the RV go with me. And now it’s doing this. Well,
I’ve definitely learned from you that I feel like a lot of times just I have to
ask a lot more questions to fully understand and, like, get them more of our grasp
of what’s going on. But I feel like I actually now have the questions to ask
versus like, I don’t know.
So yeah, definitely helping me to be able to dig deeper with them and offer more
resources than I had before. Yeah, I’m really excited to see how it will continue
on. Well, and I know, I feel like every time we have a class, I mean,
every class is different. But in this class, it was a really interesting mix.
Or maybe I’m putting the two classes together. But I know currently right now we
have a few midwives and we also have several women postpartum and women with
children. So whenever we’re having sessions, someone always has a child on the call
and sometimes I’m very frequently even breastfeeding on the call because we have
several women in the postpartum. So I think that it’s an interesting mix, an
interesting group, especially because a lot of your clients will also kind of fall
into those categories. So it really has has given us an opportunity to like dive
deeper into our postpartum material and all of those things. I mean, maybe share
from the perspective of a midwife. So, for example, if we had a midwife who’s
listening or Dula, somebody who is working with that population, what are the
possibilities, what are the implications of being able to do this work with your
clients? Yeah. Yeah, I feel like it’s giving me a lot more like tools and things
about it, like, the final post -partum visit, and not that I didn’t know this as a
midwife, but, like, I really love your emphasis on, like, the nutrient replacement.
Yeah, so I’m definitely working that more into my sixth week and then also just
diving deeper into how they’re wanting to manage their interpregnancy fertile time or
they’re wanting to have kids more. I work with a large Amish population. So that
was also like a motivating factor because it’s like if they’re going to use any
sort of birth control, it’s going to be fertility awareness. So that is also a
motivating factor for me too. So far I haven’t necessarily had any of them wanted
to like really dive deep into it. But it’s allowed me to be able to talk a little
bit more in depth as far as they want to go into it yeah and then also in my
history of like midwifery i have this one particular client who was also charting
and she was trying to chart pretty faithfully and did get pregnant a whole time
with that so i know yeah when i have clients like her now it’s like okay we’ll
really be able to help her really actually be able to achieve her goals and
understanding when she is fertile and when she’s not. And…
ever had a very clear structure before. But it feels good to have that it’s more
of a clear structure to work with somebody in that preconception time period from
understanding when they’re fertile to like how we can address menstrual circulate
regularies to, yeah, really targeted nutrition to build the fertility.
So, mm -hmm, and exciting too. Yeah, so important. And there was something that came
up a couple of times in your own experience of kind of charting, but kind of
slipping into the rhythm method and then your client who was also kind of charting
but didn’t necessarily have the information. And I find that topic to be, obviously
I find it to be interesting because, I mean, this is the same thing I’ve been
saying for all these years, but one of the goals that I’ve always had working with
clients and now practitioners is that we equip women with the information so that
they can be successful for whatever their goals are. Because anybody who’s kind of
in the fertility awareness world or has heard a little bit about it may have heard
these stories. And there was a study that I shared in the research series and it
was of about 300, mostly female practitioners and it was asking them their thoughts
and opinions about fertility awareness -based methods. And it was a quantitative and
qualitative studies. So they also had their open responses to questions. And I mean,
some of the responses, a lot of people have that kind of like, well, it doesn’t
work. It’s not effective. My aunt used it and she had seven kids. Like, it’s just
all that kind of stuff is always going on in the air. And I do think it’s helpful
to understand why there is this subset of women who’ve tried to use fertility
awareness and have had an unplanned pregnancy. I mean, I don’t know if this is a
great way to ask the question, but I’m curious, like, knowing what you know now,
what are your thoughts when you hear about women who, you know, oh, I was charting
and I got pregnant and that wasn’t what I was planning to do? Yeah. Well, I mean,
again, one of the things I love that you’ve modeled was just all the questions,
like asking us more questions than I read it before. Like, when I do have the
conversations about either my first visit with somebody or maybe my last visit with
somebody when I hear if it was a planned or unplanned pregnancy and then ask them
like what they were using, what method they were using or what method they intend
to use, it’s like they might say fertility wear enough, but then I ask them like
on a deeper level, like, okay, or they might say charting and then I ask them sort
of
but like seeing that and now knowing like what makes it like 99 .4 effective if
we’re using it for a birth control and knowing that I haven’t met a one I guess
so far that has done the symptom to thermal method that you can get that 99 .4.
So yeah, I guess like that’s kind of my answer is like well what kind of like
charting were they were they actually doing? I mean, some people of like charting is
just like, oh, I know when my period came. And that’s what they consider charting.
So, yeah, that doesn’t tell you. I know if you’re part or not.
I mean, that’s one of the reasons why I’m so obsessed with the literature and the
research and the science. And when I’m interviewed on other podcasts and they’re
asking me about it, I had a really interesting interview last month, and she’s
asking me all these questions about the effectiveness. But if you want to answer the
questions, like from an actual research scientifically supported standpoint, if you go
into research about fertility awareness -based methods, first of all, you have to say
fertility -worest -based methods, because there’s not just one category, and there’s
multiple different ways to chart. And so I think it’s so interesting how far
people’s opinions are about fertility awareness are from the truth of the double
-checked symptom thermal method, which is what we essentially teach in fam. Because, I
mean, you can have someone basically saying anything and then falling under the
umbrella of what some people consider charting. And I know, fortunately, I feel like
when I hear stories of how people are trolled on the internet and like the kinds
of comments, I saw this post the other day and this woman was saying all these
negative things that people had commented in our post. I’m thinking, wow, like, I’ve
never had any of that. So I’ve never really had like internet trolling. Maybe I’m
just in a nice niche. I always find fertility awareness people are so nice. Thank
you all. But I guess the point that I’m making is every now and then, if I make
a post about 99 .4 % effective or fertility awareness works or this is why it works.
Occasionally you do get people that are like, no, it doesn’t work. That’s a lie.
You can get pregnant every day of your cycle. I got pregnant using it and those
kind of things. It can be very…
you know, on the flip side, there’s a lot of women who don’t even know this as an
option, but the hormonal options aren’t working for them. They have bad side effects
and all of that. So, yeah, it’s really important, I think, for women to know that
it can work and to have the tools to be able to sort that out. So I just wanted
to comment on that because I felt like that was kind of like a theme that was
coming up. Well, so, I mean, for anyone who is kind of thinking about this. I
think one of the questions I always ask when we jump into these interviews, because
most of our practitioners have listened to these. They’re often binging the
practitioner episodes to kind of find out the inside scoop, like what goes on in
the program. So what would you want to share for someone who’s kind of thinking
about jumping into them, curious about what it’s like. I think a lot of
practitioners are curious about how they can actually integrated into their practice,
like how they can make this work with clients. So what would you want someone to
know if they were curious? Yeah. Yeah. Well, it definitely gives you a whole other
bag of tools than you’ve ever had before. And Lisa has so many resources.
But it’s like, I have two months left. And I’m like, I don’t know. I don’t think
I’m going to get through all the resources by that time. Yeah. Yeah, I mean, I see
it like as adding into my practice, both with Midwifery and my RV go work,
but then also like as an additional offering too, which I actually kind of like
because as we were talking about, we’d refer like on call is not always the
easiest. So I kind of like it as another offering that doesn’t necessarily require
me to be on call. Yeah, but I really love that it’s like not just like learning
how to interpret the charts, but definitely lots of resources and foundations to
help. We talk a lot about what we call the foundational factors that by teaching
and educating on those that can really help to normalize cycles just with those.
But then there’s also other tools beyond just those too for those that are needed.
I mean, I’m just in the beginning of this, but I feel like there’s always being
the answer for whatever so far whatever I’ve come up with. It’s like, or what my
clients have presented with. So that’s been great to have like so many resources.
And yeah, really loved it. And I think anybody who jumps into it who works with
women’s health will definitely appreciate it and learn a lot.
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Now let’s go ahead and jump back into today’s episode.
I mean, I feel like our group has been super fun. Every time we meet, we go
through all kinds of questions. And I always joke that all of our practitioners are
bringing these, quote, easy charts. I find that that’s a joke. They’re typically not
easy. But it’s really real world. And what I always say is that when you’re working
with clients,
initially think about charting, you kind of think, oh, I’ll just help them to learn
and it’ll just be pretty straightforward, but it really doesn’t take long before you
see that the people who are really seeking support, they’re seeking it because
they’re having some challenges and they’re really wanting some relief, some support,
and they’re wanting some help to get their cycles into the normal range and to kind
of get support with the issues that they’re having. So it’s certainly, I think you
bite off more than you can chew a lot of the time when you jump into the realm
of charting. So with that said, maybe share with us a little bit about what you
do, where you are in the world, anything you want us to know if anyone wants to
get in touch with you and learn more about you. Yeah. So I’m in the southwest part
of Wisconsin, which is known as the Driftless. And I am home birth and home birth
midwife and will also have the birth center for those small births and a birth.
Plus, I offer the Arbigo mine abdominal therapy and as an adjacent to that,
which I kind of combine them. I’m awesome. The spinning baby is a practitioner too.
So another body work aspect. Now I’m working on being a fan practitioner. So adding
that and also doing Kelly Garza’s Perry Steen facility. Amazing.
So love working with women women in the Chadbury near. Yeah, I don’t have a website
that people can find me at Back to Basics, Midwifery. So, and I’m barely on social
media, but Back to Basics, midwifery is where you can find me there too. Amazing.
Yeah, I feel like there’s a conversation to be had about social media. I feel like
a lot of people are feeling a little disconnected from is going on with their
algorithms. So that’s fair enough. But I’ll make sure to link all of the different
places that you shared. And I just want to thank you for being on the show. This
was so much fun and it was such a great opportunity to dive more into your story.
Yeah, I think so. It’s good to talk to you some more.
Thank you for listening. If you enjoyed today’s show, please share it with a friend.
You’ll find the show notes page over at fertility friday .com slash 599.
whether they’re using it in their own lives and also for how they plan to use it
in their practices as well. Of course, if you are listening to this in real time,
you still have an opportunity to join us in our next class of fam. We’re starting
in January of 2026. Make sure to head over to fertility friday .com slash fam live
for additional details. So with that said, I hope you have a wonderful week weekend
whenever you’re tuning into the show. And of course, as always, until next time, be
well and happy charting.
And that’s a wrap. If you’ve been loving the podcast and you’ve been thinking about
ways to incorporate fertility awareness into your women’s health practice, then I know
you’ll love our fertility awareness mastery mentorship certification program. It’s a
nine -month immersive experience that will completely transform the way that you work
with clients and registration is officially open head over to fertility friday .com
slash bam live to apply today and in the meantime have a listen to what our
practitioners have to share about their experience in the program in my own practice
and then with questions with clients I had this feeling like there’s just more that
I don’t know about this and more clarity that I could gain and give to my clients.
The method, the way that the cervical mucous charting is done to me is just like
life -changing because the level of detail was really profound in what I needed.
Transform your practice in nine months. Head over to fertility friday .com slash fan
live to apply today. That’s fertility friday .com slash F -A -M -M -L -I -E.