From 12 Ibuprofen a Day to Painless Periods (Episode 578)

Full Transcript: Episode 578

Lisa Hendrickson-Jack:

This is the Fertility Friday Podcast, episode number 578.

Today I’m sharing my interview with Michelle Snyder. She is one of our FAM practitioners currently in training. And in today’s episode, we cover so many important topics from her experience with hormonal contraceptives, suspected endometriosis that went undiagnosed for years, and how she came to cycle charting and how that has shifted her perspective. But I think that one of the most interesting parts of Michelle’s experience is her educational background. She has a significant educational background in not only biology but nutrition as well. And so she was truly astounded by how much she didn’t know about her reproductive health. And this is a theme that we hear over and over again in our FAM program when working with women’s health professionals who’ve received training in many different areas.

So before we jump in, let me tell you a little bit about Michelle. Michelle Snyder is a nutrition scientist and fertility educator with a background in human biology and a Master’s in nutrition science. As the director of science for a personalized wellness biotech company, she focuses on proactive fertility care and helping women understand their cycles, protect their fertility, and make empowered health decisions. When she’s not decoding hormone panels, or challenging outdated nutrition advice, Michelle enjoys cooking, reading mystery novels, and spending time in Boston with her husband. So, without further ado, let’s go ahead and jump into today’s episode.

And I’m excited to be here today with Michelle. Welcome to the show.

Michelle Snyder:

Hi, Lisa. Thank you so much for having me. This is like bucket list item for me.

Lisa Hendrickson-Jack:

Amazing. Well, thank you so much for coming on. As you know, and as the audience knows, of course, I love doing these episodes. And selfishly, it’s a great opportunity for me to have a little extra time with you. Although we’ve been seeing a lot of each other over the last several months, I always like starting with my most favorite question and I feel like it’ll be a great segue into everything we’re going to talk about today. But let us know when you had your first period, how old were you, and take us through your journey with contraceptives, if you took them before, with menstrual health, and how you discovered charting and what has led you to do the work that you’re doing now.

Michelle Snyder:

Absolutely. So my period, first period, 13 years old, quite standard. I really kind of were going through that whole phase of okay, I think I’m pretty regular. Got more regular as time went on and then things started going off the rails probably like late middle school and then the entirety of my high school journey where I had really really bad period pain and of course all this time. When I got up the courage to tell my doctors, it was, you know, take more Advil. You should really consider the pill. And I didn’t. I kind of just struggled through it. And never really got any answers around 20 years old. I really got to the point where I was like, “Okay, I should be taking this into my own hands.” I was studying biology in college, so I was like, you know, shouldn’t I like have some semblance of an idea of how the system works? I didn’t. So, I was like, I’m going to drive to Planned Parenthood and get birth control because I read and heard that that was the only thing that could really fix it. Plus, I was on top of the pain, had hormonal acne, and was like, “This will fix all my problems.” So, I was on the pill for six years, and honestly, it helped a bit with the symptoms. It didn’t make them go away. It wasn’t any magic pill. But then I actually during that time went to grad school for nutrition. So, I was already on this path of like, I want to be in health care. I want to be in wellness. I want to know all these things about how the body works and how to treat it really well and how to get super healthy. So, even in nutrition grad school, I had no clue about reproductive health, optimal fertility, none of that stuff. So, I dove in on my own. And that’s of course, you know, you were one of my early entries into the world of reproductive health, and I was like, I got to — I want to get off the pill in my own personal — that was what I had decided. So, I switched actually to a hormonal IUD. Wasn’t that much better to be perfectly honest with you. I actually did not like that experience at all. So, I had that for two years and then ultimately decided, okay, I’m done with all of it and came off contraceptives completely. And that’s when I started really getting into the charting world at the same time. So in like trying to mirror what was happening in my life, I never stopped that self-study of fertility and reproductive wellness in addition to — I had graduated grad school and then I started working in personalized wellness biotechnology actually at the same company I’m at now and I was probably like early to mid 20s, met my boyfriend at the time, now my husband, and was like I really should know this stuff. And so I just never stopped, got deeper and deeper, started telling all my friends about this and the more I educated people, the more questions you get naturally. So, it sort of accidentally turned into this business of fertility health and menstrual health. And that’s of course why I’m in this program now is just because it’s the best thing I’ve found when you really want to help someone out with this world and give them the really good information. So that’s me — cycling birth control free, charting my little butt off and enjoying the ride.

Lisa Hendrickson-Jack:

I love it. I love just the snapshot into your journey. And I mean, it’s a common theme after interviewing so many of our practitioners that regardless of what your background was, it’s not necessarily giving you a deep dive into — I mean, you might obviously there’s things that you are learning that are important, but in terms of the world of charting and the true deep dive into reproductive health and hormones and all those kinds of things, it’s just not currently a standard thing.

Michelle Snyder:

Absolutely. That’s what shocked me the most. I was like, someone deep in the sciences can come out with no knowledge about this. Like, how can I expect any of my friends or loved ones to have this either?

Lisa Hendrickson-Jack:

Well, and I wanted to ask you a clarifying question because you mentioned that you were using the pill for several years and you said that it helped a little, but obviously like it still — you like it didn’t fully fix everything, but you had some relief and then you decided to switch to the IUD. Was it hormonal or non hormonal?

Michelle Snyder:

It was hormonal. Kyleena, I believe.

Lisa Hendrickson-Jack:

And then you mentioned it wasn’t a great experience. Do you want to share a little bit more?

Michelle Snyder:

Sure. So, actually, I would love to clarify the insertion that everyone has a horror story for. It was actually totally fine for me. So, I’ll be that — hopefully maybe if no one’s heard a positive insertion story. It actually wasn’t that bad. So, I actually went in knowing what I knew at the time. So this is maybe three or four years ago and said I want the copper IUD because I would like non hormonal and she told me no mid procedure essentially — she was like all right well if that’s what you want it’s bigger, you haven’t had kids, you’re small. And then mid procedure was like, oh — and at that point it wasn’t excruciatingly painful but it was uncomfortable and at that point I was like okay you convinced me, put the smaller one in.

Lisa Hendrickson-Jack:

That is very interesting. And I mean, for a very practical reason, if you had chosen to go through with it, you might have had a different insertion story for us. Because the copper IUD was physically larger and so in that, even in that respect, I feel like that’s the first time I’ve heard somebody say that that was the reason why they were recommended the hormonal over the — the size.

Michelle Snyder:

Yeah. And I looked it up later. I said how much bigger is it really? I think it’s maybe one or two millimeters wider, maybe a little longer. But yeah, I said my critical thinking brain wasn’t very on at the time.

Lisa Hendrickson-Jack:

And then when you decided to remove the IUD and transition to fertility — maybe share a little bit about your journey there, like what was that like for you? Were you avoiding pregnancy at that time? And if so, how did you mitigate any fears of potentially conceiving?

Michelle Snyder:

Yes. Yes, I was faced with all of the objections that I think most people are. I associated it with a very religious context. I was raised Catholic and that’s like — don’t think they know what they’re talking about. So, no, and that’s not to say that they don’t. But that was my association. I didn’t see it as a very scientifically precise tool that I do now. So, yeah, I was worried about the inaccuracies of things. I even using tools like Natural Cycles I was a bit skeptical of. Luckily I have a partner who’s very willing to like respect our decision and use protection during — at that time it was the whole cycle because couldn’t have really told you when we were infertile most of the time. So we’re just like have sex get pregnant and die. That’s what’s in my generation’s head. So that luckily wasn’t a super big concern because it was like, “Okay, we’ll use protection. No big deal.” But then the more I got into charting my cycle and I was like, “Oh, it’s only six days I have to target or not target.” Coming off of the IUD was actually a great experience because I also bought into the whole it’s so localized, it’s a very small dose, it’s not really affecting you hormonally. I was told I would still be able to ovulate, which I guess was kind of true. But having the full cycle back with all of its color and all of its personality was such a great experience for me. And then learning the method — and which really, I would say charting before your program like as an aspiring practitioner and charting now, the confidence boost was also extremely significant just to have someone work through it with you and not just read it in a book. So, it just became more and more obvious when that window was for me to confidently — oh, this is fertile time, this is not. And I really think it’s given me so much. It feels very micromanagey and like very obsessive when you haven’t done it. But then when you do it, I’m like, “Wow, this is very freeing.” I actually don’t feel that there’s much cost at all when it comes to the charting process.

Lisa Hendrickson-Jack:

That’s really interesting to say that because I resonate with that. I mean, that’s been my experience where yeah, you’re tracking, you’re noting things down, you’re being very precise, especially depending on the method that you’re using. So the method that we use is very precise in terms of how we track the various different signs. But interestingly, that structure, it allows you to be a lot more confident and to not just be riddled with fear. And everyone’s different, but my experience of — I mean, I was so uncomfortable with the pill that in my personal experience when I actually needed birth control, I was not comfortable with it because I knew that I didn’t always take it at the same time. And I’m very type A. So every time I would have taken it 3 hours too late or 5 hours, I would have been stressed about this. And so that was one of the reasons why I decided, okay, condoms it is. And then I promptly discovered fertility awareness and that helped to give even more confidence. So I think it’s interesting to hear that perspective because obviously it’s very opposite to what people would think. I was like, I don’t want to be so obsessive. And even my friends who I do talk to about it, they’re like, ah, you have to take your temperature every morning and you can’t get up. I’m like, well, yeah, at first. And it was so valuable. And I — I know we didn’t really plan to talk about it, but I even — the technology has gotten so good today that now that I’ve done the baseline oral temperature for quite some time and I’ve compared it — they have an Oura Ring. So, it’s like sometimes I get a little lazy, but I’ve learned so much and I have this strong biological basis of what my body is doing that it doesn’t — it’s not taking over my life and my morning the way I think many people assume it does.

Lisa Hendrickson-Jack:

I mean, we talk obviously extensively in the program about how to use and counsel clients on these various tools. Certainly, I’m sure I come across as like being super anti-tech, but maybe you could share a little bit about your experience with it because we certainly do talk about it in the program as having a place and it really depends on your client’s goals.

Michelle Snyder:

I’d be happy to talk about it. So, the oral — I mean, that’s the method — the oral temperature taking. I’ll never say we should not do that. So, I did it. I did oral temperature and I compared it to my Oura Ring because I’m a scientist and I love data and I wanted to see how they compared. But nothing could have ever replaced those like three or four months of like really targeted — I’m taking my temperature, I’m following the rules, I’m making sure there’s no things I could manipulate it, or I’m noting it if there are. So I was really impressed that they correlated quite well — the temperature changes — but because the Oura Ring is not the core body temperature, it’s always a few degrees lower, which if you don’t have the basal body temperature baseline, I would have maybe assumed it was a thyroid or a metabolism issue because they’re all under that 97.4 threshold for me. But because I did both, I said okay, I understand what’s going on here. The thing about the Oura Ring which I love — I love that it exists and it’s an option — but the only way to get your temperature is through that Natural Cycles subscription connection. So that’s the only way it transforms my temperature using an algorithm. And I have to say I did compare all my chart fertile windows that I identified using cervical mucus and the things that we know how to look for — with the fertile window that Natural Cycles gave me. And it does pretty well. But there was one cycle where it gave me green days on two of my fertile days. So it’s just — and that’s just me. I don’t know any — and I have a pretty regular cycle. To see that in my own data was very jarring. I said, “Wow, like as good as these technologies are, nothing is ever going to replace or be better than your own body signs.”

Lisa Hendrickson-Jack:

Well, I mean, I appreciate you sharing that and I feel like it’s in the spirit of what we try to do in FAM, which is truthfully like the first step is to actually understand what’s going on in your body so that you can track it in the pre-tech way, because the understanding is the most important part. And I have no issues with anyone using — I mean, everyone do whatever you want. But my message typically is that we want to really understand how the tech works and tech is kind of a mystery. There was a really interesting study where they actually took a lot of these devices and apps that purport to tell you when your fertile window is and they measured it based on actual guidelines and very few of them actually met those guidelines. So similar to your experience of having those days that it identified as safe that were actually fertile days — it’s not that we’re throwing them under the bus because of course we use tech. All of us use tech. Plenty of our clients use tech. But I feel like the way that you’re doing it is what makes sense because we understand what is happening in our body. We understand how to track it and then we can do those tests.

Michelle Snyder:

When I shared that, it was very surprising to a lot of people because I love the empowerment behind the idea of these apps and I think they do a good job getting that message across. But when you’re relying on rhythm method thinking — or the predictive style — you cannot trust that fully over what your own body is telling you.

Lisa Hendrickson-Jack:

Well, I will stand on this hill as well. I always say like the app doesn’t know what’s in your panties today. And you’re not a robot. And one of the things we talk about a lot is the rhythm method thinking. We have been programmed for years. The birth control pill is 28 days — that was designed to mimic — that’s what we’re told is what the cycle is. It’s not. I was looking at some data today and basically the author was saying that ovulation only occurs on day 14 — at least in the study that he was citing — 34% of the time. So even for women who have relatively regular cycles, if you actually track your specific data for six cycles in a row, you’re not going to ovulate on the same day six times. And then like buy a lottery ticket please. It’s one thing we can think whatever we want. And when you start tracking, you actually start to see like — oh wait, I thought this was like zipped up. But then you see like, oh wait, that one month that I had that stressful thing happen — wow, my cycle shifted. I didn’t expect that it would actually shift that way. So, we learn a lot by just getting out of our heads and getting out of the rhythm of the thinking.

Michelle Snyder:

Even through charting and I’ve made these very targeted protocol changes based on what I see — which is amazing — and no one really tells you that you’re still a human being. So I was switched to decaf, getting my morning sunlight, had my nutrition dialed, like did all the foundational factors, saw improvements in my cycle, and then I think I just assumed I was locked in. Like, oh, I have a 15-day luteal phase now for the rest of my life. And then you have a tough month or something and it goes right back to 11 or 12 days. I said, “Oh, I didn’t even think about that.” And you assume. We totally are creatures of the assumption, the patterns, and it is hard to take yourself out of it. But it’s the best thing you could do because then you’re not victim to those rhythm method style thinkings or assumptions.

Lisa Hendrickson-Jack:

I love that you said that because that’s the reason why FAM isn’t just like an online video course that you can just passively consume. It’s a mentorship for a reason. Because there’s just certain things if you’re going to be that kind of mentor for your clients, there’s certain things you actually have to experience. And the goal is not perfection. That cycle that you saw, that luteal phase went down a little bit — that’s not a failure. We’re not looking at that saying, “What did you do wrong?” It’s an opportunity for you to learn more. Because now you know — oh wait, that stuff I was doing actually makes a difference. And then you also know, oh wait, I’m also human.

And then the third part of it is that you start to learn — I feel like the biggest lesson for me that I try to impart is you learn that you have limits and you learn to actually be part of the conversation. So before you started charting, you were just doing stuff and your body was trying to talk to you but you weren’t listening. But now that you’re charting, you’re actually playing like catch and throw. Like you’re both participating in this conversation. And I really feel like as I start to get into these premenopausal years at the tender age of 42, this is becoming more on my radar. And I recognize not everybody had this opportunity, but for women who did have the opportunity to discover charting — whether it was in their 20s or 30s — and they have a couple of years under their belt, they start to see like, oh wait, when I don’t eat enough and don’t sleep enough and I’m totally stressed out, I have these like wild PMS cycles. But when — you start to kind of get into that dance of what your body really needs.

Michelle Snyder:

The dance metaphor is beautiful. Just like — what other body part or anything gives you that kind of feedback? To the level of detail that we can get. And even working for a company that does blood testing and things like this, I still find the value of that monthly report card to be infinitely more useful. That was the other reason too — I said, well before we even have kids, I want to have the opportunity to get to know my body so well — because without that on-ramp, how could I ever know? How could I ever know what was actually working or what I read on a blog and didn’t actually do anything for me?

Lisa Hendrickson-Jack:

So you did mention some of the work that you do and the blood work analysis. I know you wanted to talk a little bit about that. Why don’t you share a little bit about that? Give us some background but also I want to kind of hear what you think about it now given your experience.

Michelle Snyder:

I love it. So my experience — for those who may not know — I’m currently the director of science for a personalized wellness company and what that entails is we are taking in a lot of data on someone. So primarily through a blood test, potentially genetics if they have it, wearable tracker devices, and of course the things that someone inputs like this is what I eat, this is how I exercise, this is how I live. And it’s so fascinating to be in this space. But I love your question because looking at it from the lens of what I know about reproductive health, it’s fascinating to see the things that we associate with health that kind of explain why people still have reproductive health problems.

So for instance, I know I get to look at a lot of blood work. And I have the gift of looking at a data set of a primarily healthy population — those who have the time and the money to invest in a service like this and they’re usually really health conscious — and I still see trends that I don’t think will surprise you at all. Where vitamin D levels are consistently on that lower end — by lower end I mean like 30 nanograms per milliliter or less — whereas in our world, knowing what we know about the role of vitamin D in reproductive health and hormonal health and things like this, we want it more like 60 to 90. So a lot higher than even a lot of optimal zones recommend. The other major one that we know is linked to a lot of fertility and reproductive health issues is blood sugar. So fasted glucose even for the healthiest people — who look, feel, act super metabolically healthy — I see their blood sugar dancing at around this lower 90, mid 90 milligrams per deciliter, but really we would want to see those like 70 to 90, which is way lower than anyone’s recommending. So to even see that in incredibly healthy populations gives me a lot of context — knowing that it’s that avatar of someone who’s doing everything right, very health conscious, eating all the right foods, exercising, but we’re still not quite there yet. There’s still grounds to cover when it comes to if you wanted to really optimize for hormonal health and reproductive health and fertility.

Lisa Hendrickson-Jack:

I really appreciate you sharing that. I feel the same way with the cycle because I’m on the other end of these conversations where someone will be following someone on social media and assuming — never assume — because they look so great, their skin is glowing and they’re so fit or whatever, that their cycles are great. Just the other day in one of our classes, one of our practitioners was sharing. She said, you know, I was following this woman and she had an amazing exercise routine. Of course, her body looks perfect — only to discover that she doesn’t have a period. And you know what I mean? So it’s like we can all look great. But I always say — Lily and I in Real Food for Fertility — if there was a tagline, the menstrual cycle doesn’t lie. And similar to how doing the blood analysis gives you that one step deeper level of — you look great, you’re doing everything great — let’s see what’s happening with the blood work and seeing that there’s a little bit of room for opportunity, room for improvement. I feel like it’s often the same way with the cycle where it’s like overall you’re doing great, like you’ve got a lot of these things in check, but there’s often a little bit of room for a bit of refinement.

Michelle Snyder:

Exactly. And then again — tale as old as time — I have a perfectly normal healthy regular period because it comes when I expect it to. And like that being the end of the definition. I see that a lot. And then that’s of course what we’re told as well. If it comes around when you expect it and the bleed doesn’t deviate from your normal then that’s considered healthy.

Lisa Hendrickson-Jack:

Yes. Well, yeah, it’s just so — I mean there’s always more to dig into. And sometimes clients will come for a specific reason and things like the PMS or the period pain — because that’s not the main thing — they’re not even thinking about that. And because we’ve been so programmed to think that it’s normal — it’s shark week, right? It’s that time of the month, Aunt Flow, whatever euphemism. And I had a conversation with one of my past clients. She shared her story with me. She was like, “You know, Lisa, you were the first person who ever told me that my periods didn’t have to be painful and that I didn’t have to like work out like a maniac while I was bleeding.” And I was like, “Well, yeah, that’s like the whole point.” But it’s those little things that after you hear them and after you kind of sit with it — duh, right? For newer listeners, or remember when you yourself didn’t know this information when you first discovered it — it was revolutionary for someone to tell you that. Because we just live in this really interesting world where we just normalize all the things that are not normal.

Michelle Snyder:

And the period pain one — because of my personal experience, which was having essentially undiagnosed endometriosis — because no one would ever take the time to diagnose me. It was just — oh, the surgery, just go on the pill, take Advil, super normal — again normalizing it. But yeah, to the point where I remember I would be literally losing my sight temporarily because of how painful it was. I remember in high school I was popping like 10 to 12 ibuprofen a day just to stay on top of and curb the pain. That’s not normal. No one told me that wasn’t normal. And I had friends — I thought it was easy because I had friends who would throw up during lunch every single day on their period. I’m like, “Oh, cool. I have it easy because I’m not puking in school.” Can you believe?

Lisa Hendrickson-Jack:

It’s so infuriating. But yeah, the more people we can tell that that’s not normal — that’s common. Common. Yes. Normal. No. And it’s a red flag. It’s worthy of investigation. Find somebody who will listen to you. And I think that’s what’s frustrating too, because I tried asking not one, not two, maybe three different doctors over the course of my life and not really getting an answer from any of them.

I mean, I appreciate you sharing that. It is unreal how common that story is. I’ve shared many times on the podcast in a variety of different episodes the research that we have on endometriosis and how difficult it is to get a diagnosis. One of the studies that’s commonly quoted shows that it takes anywhere from 8 to 12 years on average for women to get a diagnosis. There was an episode that I recorded — I’ll have to link it — and I titled it “That One Doctor” I think — there was a paper called that and it was a qualitative analysis of women’s experiences. They titled the paper that because that was what they kept hearing — because they were interviewing all these women who ended up having an endometriosis diagnosis, and they kept saying that after going to doctor, after doctor, after doctor — like in your case, it was that one doctor who even used the word endometriosis. It was like a huge number of these women who ended up getting the diagnosis who had never even heard it before that one doctor told them, after they had been to multiple. So it’s just really unfortunate and unconscionable that women have to suffer so much.

But maybe we can end on a note of hope and you could share a little bit about what you did, because you did share that you’ve experienced a bit of a shift here. So share a little bit more about your story and when did you figure out that it wasn’t normal, and when did you put that potential endometriosis name to what you were experiencing?

Michelle Snyder:

Absolutely. The time I figured out it wasn’t normal — at that point I had already been on the IUD. It was quite a few years after the worst of my experience. That’s why I’ll never really crap on hormonal birth control because it did give me the space and the symptom-free time to like really do digging for things like this.

I would say it was around that time I wasn’t completely off — free and clear of contraceptives yet — and I was in nutrition school. So I was like, yeah, I know this stuff. I know I eat really well. I know it’s anti-inflammatory. But learning that endometriosis is not a period problem, nor is it really hormonal — it’s inflammatory — that simply learning more made me feel in control. So beyond just doing all the quote unquote basic things right, learning more — so Katie Edmonds’ Heal Endo book — oh my gosh, I loved, loved, loved, loved, loved that. And then seeing everything I would read online like “oh research is limited, eat some colorful veggies, there’s no cure” — that’s pretty much what I would find on the internet. But hearing her say there are like tens of thousands of studies on endometriosis and there’s a lot that we know — I was like wow. Just that made me feel the control was back in my hands. So the practical stuff absolutely mattered — it was such a solid foundation — but I really needed to buy in to the fact that when I was running these solutions, I felt really confident in my life and in my mind. That’s when I really started to see results.

So I’m so obsessed with this connection between our environment and our lifestyle and our emotions and the way we feel about things and our intention — and how they influence our biology. So it’s like yes, eating correctly, sleeping well, foundational factors matter. They never won’t. But you need to feel at home in your body as well. And I think once I did that, it was like the final step. What I needed to actually get to the lasting results where I haven’t had any flare-ups or like painful periods. I mean, I can get away with no Advil these days, which to me is revolutionary. I’ll take a hot water bottle because I like to cuddle up on the couch with it, but I don’t need any of the things that I used to rely on to get through a period anymore. It’s fascinating.

Lisa Hendrickson-Jack:

Well, and I mean, the mindset piece is huge. And having a name to what’s going on changes things as well, because it also opens the door to additional steps that you wouldn’t have taken if you didn’t know that that’s what it was. Like additional resources that are specifically targeted. Obviously a huge fan of Katie Edmonds — we had her on the podcast and she did an incredible two-part training for our FAM practitioners.

That’s right. I was going to ask you — in your situation, because of course someone’s listening thinking, well that’s nice for her, right? I’ve had this pain for insert how many years. I could not — I just don’t even believe it’s possible for me not to have pain. And it’s different for everybody, because certainly not everybody is able to get rid of their pain 100%. But certainly most women are able to see some sort of improvement. So what would you say were a few things that you feel made the biggest difference for you?

Michelle Snyder:

I would say dialing in the foundational factors, which takes time. I think that’s what we think — that once we know it — for me I have the massive privilege of going to literal school for honestly foundational factors. It’s like diet and lifestyle and the lag time it took for that information to be in my brain and then to actually make its way into my daily habits was years. So it’s like knowing it absolutely makes you feel better, but then there is a delay in the time where you really implement all of it. So I would say the first is — if you don’t see results in like six months, like it’s okay, like keep doing it. I’m talking about this entire thing over the span of six to seven years worth of practice and trial and error and experimentation. So it wasn’t instant. I mean I didn’t do it in even a year or two.

The other thing was once you get the basics down, you can start ratcheting up and leveling up. So that was cleaning up my environment — reducing as much as I could exposure to endocrine-disrupting chemicals and making the environment more suitable. So fertility-supportive things, anti-inflammatory things I could really invest in — the supplements and the things that really were that next level. And then the stress on the system — not just feeling stressed, because I was never a person that felt very stressed — but just knowing that I was living in this chronically inflamed state, there is stress on my system. So doing — I love how Katie calls it the salutogen. So really taking stock of what could be stress on my system even if it doesn’t feel like stress and then reducing those things where I can. So I found that rest, joy, creativity — what’s the opposite of an activated nervous system? Probably those things. So I started — that was like maybe the final tier of the protocol. And it took years. I mean this doesn’t happen overnight. It doesn’t even happen over a couple years. So yeah, it’s probably won’t even be done, right? It’s always — it’s like a lifelong thing, healing. So maybe that would be my best advice to someone who’s frustrated.

Lisa Hendrickson-Jack:

I appreciate that because it’s how it really looks. And anyone who works in this field in that coaching kind of realm or more of like the natural health field — there’s a difference between knowing and doing. And that’s why I always say I love the cycle because the cycle gives us the information. And if you’re not doing the things, the cycle isn’t going to respond because you’re not doing the things. And it’s not easy to do the things. That’s the hardest part. It does take time in order to, like you said, you learn the information. But in terms of buying in and actually doing it, that’s what takes the time. And then you also have to learn your body because when you learn information, you learn it kind of template style. And you have to figure out then how is this specifically going to affect me?

So, I mean, obviously this has been such a fun conversation. I could keep talking to you for the rest of the day. I always love asking a few questions. I would love to ask you about your experience in FAM. You came in highly educated. Obviously, you had a wealth of personal experience and professional experience. So, for somebody who is on the fence thinking about jumping into the program — I know that I have a lot of longtime fans that have this on their bucket list — maybe share what prompted you to jump in when you did and what your experience has been in the program.

Michelle Snyder:

Please join it. But yes, you’re absolutely right. I think because I never actually doubted how incredibly informative and enriching, empowering — like I’m not — I know that word’s kind of overused, but the confidence I have now versus the confidence I had six, seven months ago in this particular field, it’s a dramatic increase. And so for anyone who knows a lot of this, there’s still so much more to learn. And it’s not even like an egotistical like I already know this — because if you’re in Lisa’s orbit for a while, you do — like the podcast, your books, it’s all incredibly informative. But not only for the things that you can do to help other people, which I know is something that is probably our biggest goal — but for yourself. So for me, you know, this is like the oxygen mask before everyone else, but like you’re saying — to actually be in the trenches and charting every month and going through the motions like as a client, I learned so much about my own personal health and things that I really might not have picked up on had I just been charting the way I was previously.

And then the confidence to really take on clients. So like I was saying, I started very education based just getting the stuff out to the world. And naturally when people start to ask you questions there was always this fear of like am I really giving them the best thing for them — because in my head it’s like 40 different papers swimming and all these things I’m like what’s the best. And this really helped me — there are these beautiful protocols here that you can adapt to where your person’s at based on all the different criteria that they fit in across the things we know about them. It gets hyper, hyper specific. So my confidence in working with people has just absolutely hit a new level. And I think, yes, it’s an investment, but it’s you — if you work with clients your return — you get the return on investment and then you feel really, really good about your work with them. So, I don’t know — if you are on the fence, please do it.

Lisa, this is a wonderful program and seeing you every week is a delight. I love your metaphors. I love your jokes. I love your isms because they help me help other people.

Lisa Hendrickson-Jack:

Well, that’s — thank you so much, Michelle. It is just — I mean, it’s obviously I thoroughly enjoy the program and it’s really interesting for me to just kind of see how my dream to bring FAM into the world — fertility awareness method — there’s a double entendre happening here. My dream of bringing it into the world, it’s really fun to see how that has shifted and it’s truly just a joy to share this with practitioners. I love to see — and the interesting part about the mentorship part is that yeah, we give you a ton of information in the first part of this program, but a lot of your own experience and learning just kind of happens as you chart.

Thank you so much. That was just the most wonderful testimonial to share. So really thankful for that. And let us know where you are, where the listeners can learn more about you and what you do.

Michelle Snyder:

Amazing. I’m like the weirdest 30-year-old. I’ve never had an Instagram, but you can find me on LinkedIn. That’s where I talk to most of my clients and I post there quite regularly. I also have a website at wttnutrition.com and I have a blog there where I like to put some more long form educational stuff — some YouTube videos from some free events I’ve done. So yes, we know there are research gaps. We’ll advocate all day long for more women’s health research, but let’s acknowledge the gap where the research isn’t getting to us. So that’s — I think that’s something you do wonderfully. It’s a big mission of mine as well. So yeah, people are welcome to reach out whenever.

Lisa Hendrickson-Jack:

Amazing. Well, I will make sure to link all of those places. Michelle, thank you so much for being here. This conversation was so fun and informative and I’m really excited to share it.

Michelle Snyder:

Thank you so much, Lisa. Loved it.

Lisa Hendrickson-Jack:

Thank you for listening. If you enjoyed today’s episode and you’re wanting to share it with a friend or you’re wanting to grab any of the links that we talked about, head over to fertilityfriday.com/578.

I hope that you enjoyed today’s episode with Michelle. Such an important theme came up in today’s episode, and this has been a recurrent theme in all of my client work over the past two decades, which is that even when you’re searching for support from the most qualified health professionals, there is very little training in any standard programming around the menstrual cycle — specifically menstrual cycle health, menstrual cycle charting, tracking, using the menstrual cycle as a vital sign, even understanding the connection between the menstrual cycle and health.

It is just such a huge opportunity, a missed opportunity for most women’s health professionals. And I feel like that theme really came out in today’s episode. This is one of the areas in women’s health that I really feel is going to become more and more prominent in the coming years because as more women discover cycle charting and as more women become familiar with this concept that your menstrual cycle is a reflection of health, they are going to want to work with practitioners who embody this and who understand this and who can support them to achieve optimal health — especially when the medical interventions that they’re being offered aren’t necessarily resolving their issues.

So, I do hope that you enjoyed today’s episode. Like I said, it was such a treat to have Michelle on the show and we really could have talked all afternoon. We had so much to talk about, but I’m thrilled at the variety of different topics that we were able to squeeze into today’s episode. So, with that said, I hope you have a wonderful week, weekend, whenever you’re tuning into the show. And of course, as always, until next time, be well and happy charting.